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Author Topic: Johktari Weapon  (Read 16058 times)

Shad0w

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 12:24:44 PM »
I want her to have quick 1D ranged wep but it is very very hard to balance. In fact I made up a few and they never got to the majority of testers due to concerns.
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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2014, 01:51:44 PM »
You could make her slow which would get rid of the fast....enfeeble I believe is the card

She dispel it then what happens? I  doubt you would have 2 Enfeeble in a spellbook.

wolf88

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2014, 01:55:24 PM »
What about this? "Frog Venom Darts" 6 Mana, one handed (only weapon slot) Quick Attack, poison, 1 dice range 0-2 Effect die, If 5+ the target is considered to be hindered. Critical Damage (it bypasses all armor) This weapon cannot roll more than one damage die per attack, regardless of other effects.

Or reduce range to 0-1 and daze on 9+

You could also pair it with an off-hand dagger like "Flint dagger" 7 cost one handed, any hand, quick melee 3 dice plus  7+ bleed
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 02:19:59 PM by wolf88 »

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2014, 12:20:04 PM »
What about this? "Frog Venom Darts" 6 Mana, one handed (only weapon slot) Quick Attack, poison, 1 dice range 0-2 Effect die, If 5+ the target is considered to be hindered. Critical Damage (it bypasses all armor) This weapon cannot roll more than one damage die per attack, regardless of other effects.

Or reduce range to 0-1 and daze on 9+

You could also pair it with an off-hand dagger like "Flint dagger" 7 cost one handed, any hand, quick melee 3 dice plus  7+ bleed

So...you want to make a weapon for the JBM, then make it incompatible with one of her signature abilities?

Plus it's poison on top of that, which is just horrible...

wolf88

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2014, 05:49:07 PM »
What about this? "Frog Venom Darts" 6 Mana, one handed (only weapon slot) Quick Attack, poison, 1 dice range 0-2 Effect die, If 5+ the target is considered to be hindered. Critical Damage (it bypasses all armor) This weapon cannot roll more than one damage die per attack, regardless of other effects.

Or reduce range to 0-1 and daze on 9+

You could also pair it with an off-hand dagger like "Flint dagger" 7 cost one handed, any hand, quick melee 3 dice plus  7+ bleed

So...you want to make a weapon for the JBM, then make it incompatible with one of her signature abilities?

Plus it's poison on top of that, which is just horrible...

I didn't want to make it too good.
An alternative could be removing the critical damage and just making it zero red dice. so it doesn't roll anything unless you boost it first. It needs to have a good effect die ability to make it worth using over a bow though.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2014, 08:50:05 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what she needs is a quick weapon. She has animals to attack when she's not. There needs to be synergy between her abilities.

Wounded prey: At the moment this is rather situational. It tends to take quite a while to destroy threatening enemy non-mage creatures, and meanwhile the enemy mage is not being attacked. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a nature school version of altar of carnage? So far the only card that rewards her for having her animals attack nonmage enemy creatures is mana vampirism. I've been trying to get this to work with her for a mana ramp/mana denial/small swarm sort of strategy, but I'm not sure it's really helping to boost her any more than she otherwise would be without it.

Innate Fast and archery skill: Innate fast is very powerful for positioning. She doesn't need to be attacking every single round, she has animals. She really seems to like hit and run tactics. So on some rounds you hit and on other rounds you run. At least with innate fast the rounds in which she runs she's able to do more than just run. She can cast a totem, or call of the wild and let her animals have at the enemy, or she can cast a group heal to keep her animals alive, or use a dispel, a dissolve, an acid ball, etc. etc. Then on other rounds she can use her full action to shoot with her hunting bow, and her quickcast action for similar things as the running rounds.

In short, she wants her animals to attack and destroy enemy threats by using her wounded prey ability, which means she wants a mid to late game strategy so that she actually has enough time to deal that much damage to things. She needs cards that will reward her for having her animals attack and destroy things, similar to altar of carnage. Maybe something that allows both her and her creatures to eat the bodies of their destroyed enemies? So like, a totem that gives her creatures growth markers every time they attack and destroy an enemy living creature or conjuration. I like the second option a lot. Also, I really like ACG's idea of Caustic venom, an enchantment that changes bleed conditions into corrode conditions. However, I wonder if that might work better as an incantation instead.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 08:58:43 PM by Imaginator »
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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2014, 01:55:44 PM »
I want her to have quick 1D ranged wep but it is very very hard to balance. In fact I made up a few and they never got to the majority of testers due to concerns.

I was thinking about that yesterday... Wizard's Zap is a quick ranged attack 0-1 with 3 attack dice and is Ethereal. Also it doesnt take equipment slot.

I don't see how a ranged weapon costing 10 mana with a 1D quick attack is out of balance compared to zap.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2014, 02:07:03 PM »

I want her to have quick 1D ranged wep but it is very very hard to balance. In fact I made up a few and they never got to the majority of testers due to concerns.

I was thinking about that yesterday... Wizard's Zap is a quick ranged attack 0-1 with 3 attack dice and is Ethereal. Also it doesnt take equipment slot.

I don't see how a ranged weapon costing 10 mana with a 1D quick attack is out of balance compared to zap.

Because she has innate fast.
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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2014, 02:36:31 PM »
A wizard can get Fast too. And don't reply it can get dispelled because I will reply JBM could get the weapon dissolved.

Laddinfance

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2014, 02:41:38 PM »
Gentlemen, please keep it civil.

Sailor Vulcan

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Johktari Weapon
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2014, 02:50:28 PM »
A wizard can get Fast too. And don't reply it can get dispelled because I will reply JBM could get the weapon dissolved.

Please give me some credit; I wasn't going to say that. Both the weapon and cheetah speed cost an extra action to cast. The Johktari bm basically gets a free extra quick action every round because of innate fast.

It costs the wizard 6 mana and two actions (one full, one qc) to get both fast and 1 arcane zap.

It costs the Johktari bm 2 actions (one qc, one full) and at least 8 mana to both have the fast trait and shoot with a bow. (First equip bow, then shoot; fast is free)

If she had a bow which gave her a quick action ranged attack  it would cost her only one full action and 8 mana maybe even less. Wizard is still paying one full action, one quickcast action and 6 mana.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 02:52:46 PM by Imaginator »
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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2014, 03:01:37 PM »
A wizard can get Fast too. And don't reply it can get dispelled because I will reply JBM could get the weapon dissolved.

Please give me some credit; I wasn't going to say that. Both the weapon and cheetah speed cost an extra action to cast. The Johktari bm basically gets a free extra quick action every round because of innate fast.

It costs the wizard 6 mana and two actions (one full, one qc) to get both fast and 1 arcane zap.

It costs the Johktari bm 2 actions (one qc, one full) and at least 8 mana to both have the fast trait and shoot with a bow. (First equip bow, then shoot; fast is free)

If she had a bow which gave her a quick action ranged attack  it would cost her only one full action and 8 mana maybe even less. Wizard is still paying one full action, one quickcast action and 6 mana.

This doesn't make any sense...

Casting Cheetah Speed is a quick cast action, attacking wih zap is a quick action.

Casting some new QuickRangedWeapon would be a quick cast action, attacking with that weapon would be a quick action.

Result: Both mages have Fast and a quick ranged attack.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2014, 04:07:17 PM »

A wizard can get Fast too. And don't reply it can get dispelled because I will reply JBM could get the weapon dissolved.

Please give me some credit; I wasn't going to say that. Both the weapon and cheetah speed cost an extra action to cast. The Johktari bm basically gets a free extra quick action every round because of innate fast.

It costs the wizard 6 mana and two actions (one full, one qc) to get both fast and 1 arcane zap.

It costs the Johktari bm 2 actions (one qc, one full) and at least 8 mana to both have the fast trait and shoot with a bow. (First equip bow, then shoot; fast is free)

If she had a bow which gave her a quick action ranged attack  it would cost her only one full action and 8 mana maybe even less. Wizard is still paying one full action, one quickcast action and 6 mana.

This doesn't make any sense...

Casting Cheetah Speed is a quick cast action, attacking wih zap is a quick action.

Casting some new QuickRangedWeapon would be a quick cast action, attacking with that weapon would be a quick action.

Result: Both mages have Fast and a quick ranged attack.

Nevermind you're right I was getting mixed up with something else. I'm sleep deprived.
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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2014, 04:11:39 PM »
I've had some thoughts on this topic for awhile.  In my opinion, being fast doesn't really help ranged creatures, and it should.  Mobile archers exist(ed) both in real life and in many popular forms of media. 

Instead of changing the Johktari Beastmaster or her bow, I think it would be more beneficial to add a few new rules.   Here are the possibilities I've thought up:

1. Biggest Buff to Ranged Units:
Instead of taking a full-action ranged attack, a creature may instead move one space and perform the listed full-action ranged attack as a quick-action.  The attack loses 1 maximum range, 2 dice, and 4 from the effect die roll (if any).  If the creature possesses the fast trait, it may make one free movement without incurring this attack penalty, and may move up to 2 spaces in total before declaring an attack. 

2. Medium Buff:
If a creature possesses the fast trait, instead of taking a full-action ranged attack, a creature may instead move one space and perform the listed full-action ranged attack as a quick-action.   

3. Minor Buff:
If a creature possesses the fast trait, instead of taking a full-action ranged attack, a creature may instead move one space and perform the listed full-action ranged attack as a quick-action.  The attack loses 1 maximum range, 2 dice, and 4 from the effect die. 

Option 1 (which is probably overpowered) makes ranged units just as mobile as melee ones.  Option 2 allows the fast trait to benefit ranged troops just as much as melee ones.  Option 3 basically just allows for occasionally better positioning and mobility at the cost of effectiveness.  Regardless of what happens, the Johktari Beastmaster really needs more synergy between her traits and abilities. 

For those wondering, I came up with the attack penalties by picturing half-drawn bows (less distance, less impact, but faster). 

Boocheck

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Re: Johktari Weapon
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2014, 03:00:18 AM »
I would rather use effect die. If creature moved and used its ranged attack, there is greater possibility for it to miss, similar to daze effect. Maybe it will be some kind of skill of a creature we will met in future :)

But i must say, i am fine with current state. I know it will change in a future and i cannot imagine fully, how meta will be affected when Skirmish trait will be added into the game. There are still great years of MW ahead of us :)
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