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Author Topic: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)  (Read 3575 times)

DaFurryFury

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Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« on: September 05, 2014, 03:28:55 PM »
Suggestions? Ideas?
The first few turns I would get gate to voltari and hopefully mana siphon protected by walls. Then slowly work out the big crushy dudes and teleport them to the places they need to be.

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Wizard of Earth[/spellbookname]
[mage]Wizard (Earth)[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWA03]1 x  Hail of Stones[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA01]2 x  Arc Lightning[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA04]2 x  Hurl Boulder[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]4 x  Hurl Rock[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j07]1 x  Gate to Voltari[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]3 x  Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFW01]5 x  Wall of Earth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j14]1 x  Mana Siphon[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c27]2 x  Moonglow Faerie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c24]3 x  Mana Leech[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c21]1 x  Huginn, Raven Familiar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c05]2 x  Blue Gremlin[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC09]3 x  Iron Golem[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWC02]1 x  Earth Elemental[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c09]1 x  Darkfenne Hydra[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e02]2 x  Block[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e20]1 x  Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e35]2 x  Reverse Magic[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e38]2 x  Teleport Trap[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]2 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e10]2 x  Decoy[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x  Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e05]2 x  Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1q08]1 x  Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q19]1 x  Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q16]1 x  Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x  Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q22]1 x  Moonglow Amulet[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q32]1 x  Suppression Cloak[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWI09]1 x  Steal Equipment[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i17]1 x  Minor Heal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i11]1 x  Explode[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI04]1 x  Force Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]1 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06]2 x  Defend[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]3 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI03]2 x  Disarm[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 119 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 03:55:16 PM »
The Mana Syphon + walls to protect it is... Bad.

You would spend 22 mana for it, basically it would take 11 turns just to break even with your opponent.

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 04:31:46 PM »
Cheetah Speed for what exactly? Golems cannot be the target, they are nonliving.
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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 05:15:22 PM »
aaand gate cannot summon iron golems and earth elemental.

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 08:25:38 PM »
If you want to use Gate to Voltari, build around arcane creatures and don't bother with Iron Golems and Earth Elemental.

You would benefit from diversifying your attack spell base and adding a Wizard's Tower.

If you want to build around strong Slow creatures, run 4 Teleports. You're a Wizard. They're cheap. Devouring Jelly, Darkfenne Hydra, and Gorgon Archer work well as strong Slow creatures if you want to use Gate to Voltari.

Don't bother to protect your Mana Siphon with walls.

Run more armor. At least a chest piece.

You're missing Dissolve. While you can use the more expensive options with stronger effects sometimes, it's important to be able to deal with equipment for cheap in case mana is tight. Disarm reduces the necessity for Dissolve, but I still think you should include at least 1 Dissolve even with a few Disarms for cheap equipment control.

Defend doesn't excite me in this build. Your little creatures are too easy to one shot to use it on them, plus Blue Gremlins and Moonglow Faeries have Pest, so your opponent can just ignore them. It doesn't work on Iron Golem or Earth Elemental. Darkfenne Hyrda already has Counterstrike, so while you could force your opponent to deal with the guard marker, you're getting less actual benefit out of the deal than using it on another creature.
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DaFurryFury

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 10:33:54 PM »
A: I can see why Gate to Voltari might be a bad choice. Will re-consider
B: I don't own a Wizard's tower. If I did that would be in every Wizard book for me 0.0
C: Don't own 4 teleports, but was planning on switching mage wands spell to that in later turns.
D: I feel like the Mana siphon with walls is being underrated. It takes away 2 mana from opponent (net+2), I can gain the mana back, or have summoned equivalent of, in 2 turns (net +2-3 depending on how mana crystals). Walls block LoS so they are also protection for short time from early attacks while I build enough for Mana Leaches (another net+ ?). It seems to me unless my opponent goes really aggressive they will have a hard time dealing with it. At which point I would respond with Golems and hindrance cards like explode. Just what I was thinking
E: The idea was to leave the chest armor open to steal it from them or explode it if it cant be equipped.
F: Meh, I can live without dissolve. I'd rather spend the 2 spellpoints on attacks or other incantations. just my opinion.
G: I haven't had the chance to see all the pros/cons of defend, but since enchantments can be revealed before any stage of the attack phase of an action I thought they were pretty good since I could see if they get past my defense before I reveal it.
H: Yeah, Cheetah speed was gonna go on golems..... darn. Will have to figure something else out for that then.

Thanks for the opinions.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 10:35:26 PM by DaFurryFury »
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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 09:31:14 AM »
G: I haven't had the chance to see all the pros/cons of defend, but since enchantments can be revealed before any stage of the attack phase of an action I thought they were pretty good since I could see if they get past my defense before I reveal it.


Thanks for the opinions.

I think you're talking about brace yourself. Defend is only able to be used effectively on your mana leech or hydra as an incantation. Since the hydra has counter attack I wouldn't recommend defend. The brace yourself is a cute way of dealing with armor. Since you're going for a long game strategy you may need more lasting armor.
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DaFurryFury

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 11:14:22 PM »
Oh right, I'm mixing up my cards. my bad. Yeah I like the defends especially with the mana leaches.
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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2014, 11:36:35 PM »
Mana Siphon with walls is not underrated, it is you who do not understand how it works.

Yes it take 2 mana away of opponent, but you need to waste 22 mana (23 if you extended the wall) to cast it with 2 walls. It requires 11 (11.5) games turns for your opponent to lose the same amount of mana that you lost casting those. So it is not before 12 turns that your opponent actually lost more mana than you.

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2014, 11:59:57 PM »
But the actual value of Mana siphon is not the total amount of mana that it takes away. The real value is that the opponent has 2 less mana to use every turn thus mitigating the possibility of several larger spells played against you in a row. Especially if you take the time to destroy mana flowers or crystals thus furthering the effect of starving the opponent of mana.
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ACG

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 09:01:12 AM »
Thing is, total mana lost is equivalent to mana deprivation on a turn by turn basis because mana can be stockpiled.

To illustrate this, consider the total mana of a 10 channelling wizard (A) vs. a 10 channeling wizard (B) over the course of 12 turns, assuming they start at 10 mana before turn 1 (and so immediately channel). On turn 1, A will cast a Mana siphon:

A:
(20) -> (Casts Mana Siphon: -12 Mana) -> ( 8 )
(18)
(28)
(38)
(48)

(58)
(68)
(78)
(88)
(98)

(108)
(118)

B:
(20) -> (Hit with Mana Siphon: -2 channeling)
(28)
(36)
(44)
(52)

(60)
(68)
(76)
(84)
(92)

(100)
(108)

As you can see, by round 7 Wizard A has caught up to Wizard B, and thereafter has a mana advantage. Now Suppose Wizard A casts 2 walls (we'll assume he uses 2 different actions to do this, to save mana, and uses walls costing 5 mana each):

A:
(20) -> (Casts Mana Siphon + Wall: -17 Mana) -> ( 3 )
(13) -> (Casts Wall: -5 Mana) -> ( 8 )
(18)
(28)
(38)

(48)
(58)
(68)
(78)
(88)

(98)
(108)

Here, the wizard has not caught up until the 12th round; up until that point, the drained wizard has more mana.

In what circumstances would having less mana on a per-turn basis be a disadvantage in of itself? The only one I can think if is if your opponent is going for a mana deprivation strategy, complete with power drain, in which case you cannot stockpile mana. Of course, the correct response in that case is to spend all of your mana every turn as quickly as possible until you find a way to protect yourself against the mana deprivation, so I don't think it inconveniences you much even then.

Now, if there is a place you want to put a wall and you decide to put a mana siphon there, all well and good. But placing a wall for the sole purpose of protecting the mana siphon is a waste of mana.

Think of a mana siphon like a mana flower/crystal - you would never use a wall to protect one of those, right? (the mana siphon takes 1 more turn to pay off, but gives you a relative advantage of 2 more mana per turn, so it is like a better version of the mana flower/crystal)

Also, being incorporeal, siphons are relatively sturdy. It would take a concerted effort (or a couple quickcast Arcane Zaps...) to take one out, which would give you a tempo advantage. Why discourage your opponent from attacking it?

Personally, I never use mana siphons. Essence Drain on an important creature is much cheaper (pays off in 3 turns) and has more or less the same effect.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 09:05:28 AM by ACG »

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Re: Earth Wizard (old in concept, new ideas.... maybe)
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 10:13:39 AM »
I still don't think that that is where the value of mana siphon lies. You just described what everyone else is saying to a greater degree. Mana siphon does not play by the same mathematical rules that you might suggest. I don't expect my first turn to be playing the mana siphon and wall. I would sooner play mana siphon plus a crystal thus buffing my boost by 1. If the opponent plays mana siphon or flowers, mana siphon negates it's effects which is a greater tempo advantage than people suggest. By third turn I would have gained at least 6 of the mana spent on mana siphon back. While my opponents has had a net total loss of 10-11 mana assuming he has played a mana flower or crystal. While it can seem insignificant in the long run of the game since it is a card with diminishing returns, it is a huge hinderance in the early game where every mana in necessary. Especially if I equip suppression cloak and similar items.

My overall point is that, for me, the length of time it takes for mana siphon to "pay for itself" is not what people should pay attention to when judging the value of the card. And furthering the effect of mana siphon by having walls protect it from potential attacks as well as protecting yourself from long range, to me, is more than worth the turn and a half of mana spent especially when I have channeling buffs like crystals harmonize and huginn familiar.
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