January 27, 2021, 03:06:54 am

Author Topic: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?  (Read 20337 times)

KosmosAlive

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For a long time I hae noticed that the Wizard kicks ass when challenging most of the Mages. I wonder if anyone else has made similar observations.

Particularly the Warlord and Forcemaster have little chance for keeping their Arcane duel up to par with the Wizard. I think the Wizard has a serious advantage in that the widely-agreed-upon most important spell in Mag Wars, the omnipresent "Dispel" costs one spellpoint for only one mage. . . OP much?  8) This is why I think it would make a lot more sense to make Dispel a NOVICE Incantation. This, in combination with more copies of the spell, would even out the odds a little bit. If this were to happen, I would tend to think of it not as a Nerfing of the spell, but instead as a leveling of the screaming lack of Novice Arcane spells. How many others would appreciate having more than one Novice Incantation (Shift Enchantment) from Arcane.

My theory is that the Wizard is Arcane Wonders' 'star of the show,' so to speak, hence his magical training being Arcane.

The fact that the wizard has no Magic School restrictions (i.e. triple spellpoints) AND he can be entirely unpredictable being trained in ALL of an elemental School.

If the Wizard was comparable to the Druid, then he would be trained in Arcane + Level ONE of one of the Elemental Schools, and Nature spells would cost triple (I've seen others post about the Wizard's aversion to the natural order, in his countering with progress and experimentation).

Maybe this is more of a rules discussion, Idk. I suppose some errata might be helpful in the future   ;)

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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2014, 06:51:25 pm »
This is a very old topic. The problem is nowhere near as bad as it used to be, if it's even still there.

Non-arcane Alternatives to dispel;

Harsh forge monolith/arcane corruption
Harsh forge plate
Purify
Getting rid of the enchanted object

They will probably release more in due time.

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13773
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Laddinfance

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 09:53:27 am »
Just for clarification, the Wizard cannot be completely unpredictable in his build. He has to choose his element before the game and let his opponents know.

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 04:19:46 pm »
If you'd like me to change the post into "we need alternate ways to dispel", then away I go!

there are a few ways to remove an equipment from a mage (corrosive orchid, dissolve, explode; no two are in the same school) and lets ignore corrode markers negating armor.

but the only school that outright removes enchantments is arcane(dispel, purge magic, destroy magic; all arcane). maybe there would fewer complaints if there were a couple other ways to remove enchantments, such as...:

1)ACG's magisbane lily (like corrosive orchid but for enchantments)
2) a holy spell I came up with forever ago which moves enemy enchantment(s) from a friendly creature to another friendly creature in the same zone.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 05:17:01 pm »
If you'd like me to change the post into "we need alternate ways to dispel", then away I go!

there are a few ways to remove an equipment from a mage (corrosive orchid, dissolve, explode; no two are in the same school) and lets ignore corrode markers negating armor.

but the only school that outright removes enchantments is arcane(dispel, purge magic, destroy magic; all arcane). maybe there would fewer complaints if there were a couple other ways to remove enchantments, such as...:

1)ACG's magisbane lily (like corrosive orchid but for enchantments)
2) a holy spell I came up with forever ago which moves enemy enchantment(s) from a friendly creature to another friendly creature in the same zone.

Well I suppose there is something that shift enchantment is useful for that transfusion wouldn't be so preferable for. I didn't think of transferring enchantments to targets they'd be less useful on. Maybe the next time i get poisoned blood revealed on me, I'll shift it to my opponent, rather than just destroying it.

Also, you forgot harshforge monolith and disarm. And the warlord has access to harshforge plate.
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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 02:03:00 am »
Unfortunately, you cannot use [mwcard=MW1I25]Shift Enchantment[/mwcard] on enchantments you do not control - so if your opponent puts Poisoned Blood on you, you cannot shift it to either one of your creatures or to the enemy.

Still: a spell which could do something like that would be very nice.
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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 11:45:04 am »
Unfortunately, you cannot use [mwcard=MW1I25]Shift Enchantment[/mwcard] on enchantments you do not control - so if your opponent puts Poisoned Blood on you, you cannot shift it to either one of your creatures or to the enemy.

Still: a spell which could do something like that would be very nice.

You mean like [mwcard=MW1I27]Steal Enchantment[/mwcard]?

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 03:22:53 pm »
Well, that works. The fellow poster before me referred to Shift Enchantment, though. :)
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Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 03:50:22 pm »
Oops, my mistake, got their effects mixed up
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MageHorst

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2014, 01:09:06 am »
And I forgot that Steal Enchantment existed - feels good to be in the mix-up club!  ;D
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Mika

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2014, 03:09:07 pm »
Quote from: IronLegionnaire
For a long time I have noticed that the Wizard kicks ass when challenging most of the Mages.
I wonder if anyone else has made similar observations.

...I think the Wizard has a serious advantage in that the widely-agreed-upon most important spell in Mag Wars, the omnipresent "Dispel" costs one spellpoint for only one mage...

- I think it would make a lot more sense to make Dispel a NOVICE Incantation... How many others would appreciate having more than one Novice Incantation (Shift Enchantment) from Arcane.

- If the Wizard was comparable to the Druid, then he would be trained in Arcane + Level ONE of one of the Elemental Schools, and Nature spells would cost triple (I've seen others post about the Wizard's aversion to the natural order, in his countering with progress and experimentation).

Agree with all.

Last 9 plays with the BB, and all them very easy victories. :|
So, your propositions are Ok, but in my opinion I would say:

- Nerfs for Wizard: "Channeling 9" & Cost to activate "Voltaric Shield": 4 mana.
and / or
- Buffs for other Mages: "Dispel" & "Seeking Dispel", Novice Incantations.

Will be helpful for the game.
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sshroom

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2014, 11:35:08 pm »
I think this is a problem with the game in general. It's a super effective strategy to just undo every enchantment and equipment your opponent casts (ala blasting banker and watergate wizard) and no mage can do this as effectively as the wizard with cheap enchantment removal and mage wands. It's not just the Wizard though. Most spellbooks pack 3 or 4 dispels and dissolves and acid balls. Dispel/dissolve wars is quite a boring game and much flavor of individual mages is lost when they can't keep any of their unique stuff on the board. But maybe this is a topic for another thread.

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 08:16:42 pm »
I have to disagree, with the dozen people whom I regularly play with, the Wizard tends to be second tier, though I like the Air Wizard for general utility.  I run a Priestess, a Druid and an Air Wizard on a regular basis, and I have found the Priestess to be the best all around Mage, though she tends to be weak against the Forcemaster and the Beast Master.  The Druid is a good mage, though she tends to be weak against the Warlock, but she is capable on having phenomenal levels of armor and regeneration, and I have gotten her up to 9 Armor, with a Veteran's Belt on top of that, and healing four life per turn, though I tend to not use the tree unless I know that it will survive long enough to be useful.  The Air Wizard is a good utility mage though who has no particular weaknesses and can deal horrific amounts of damage with his attack spells. 

Do I think that the Wizard is best?  No.  Do I think the Wizard is good?  Yes.  Do I think the Wizard is a boring mage?  Yes, though being able to Nullify the opponent so that I can counter their attempt to heal is always worth a laugh.   

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2015, 11:51:19 am »
The Wizard is indeed very powerful, Water Wizard even more due to cheap Dissolve.

The thing is that Wizard will always (if built properly) win the 1 for 1 war. You cast enchantment/equipment, I get ride of it. A wizard can remove easily 6 equipment (dissolve), 6-12 enchantment (dispel + seeking dispel) + 6 enchantment/incantation (nullify). So for 24 spellbook points a Wizard can potentially counter 24-48 (even more) of your spellbook points.

The thing that counter Wizard are creatures, but the problem is that Wizard can also summon creatures to counter your creatures and the Arcane creatures are quite good.

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Re: Has anyone else noticed how badass the Wizard is Vs. almost every mage?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2015, 04:28:26 pm »
My point of view is that the Wizard is fun to play, and perhaps the most customizable Mage (due to training selections). I, however, have to suggest that the Wizard isn't over-powered. I believe that a person's skill in general, and familiarity with any Mage in particular is what is important.

I have a friend who regularly beats me... and I don't think he's played a Wizard more than once or twice out of all of our matches, while I play one at least half of the time. Sure, the Wizard is good when played by someone who is very good at the game, knows what to expect from his or her opponent, and so on... but then most Mages are.

Conversely, if the Wizard is going up against another Mage who either 1) casts creature after creature while minimizing enchantments, or 2) goes all out aggressive on him, then the Wizard can't play such a game with multiple dispels and dissolves, or in gaining extra mana... he'll not be able to keep up in the damage dealing race. Having more mana in the end doesn't matter if you are dead.

In particular, I like how AW went about making the Wizard (primarily) somewhat less powerful, and helping the Warlord out without messing with the design of the Wizard directly. The runes were brilliant... making it more costly to remove equipment, etc. so there is a better balance there... but please don't tell me that a well-played Warlock or Forcemaster or Beastmaster or Priestess or whatever is underpowered compared with an equally well-played Wizard. I don't buy it.
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