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Author Topic: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?  (Read 4395 times)

Phillus

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How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« on: June 07, 2015, 03:24:39 pm »
Start with 7 cards draw 1 a turn.
No arena. Pretend as if zone exclusive doesn't exist. Ignore Range
Enchantments place as normally.
Creatures place on field.
Charge creatures can attack immediately.
Spawnpoints can summon creatures from hand.
Fast creatures attack first when counter striking Slow creatures attack last against counter strikes
Cantrip gets shuffled back into deck.

How do we add card draw into this game?

Sailor Vulcan

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How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 07:05:50 pm »
Not sure if this will even work, but...

No action markers or quickcast action markers. Destroying a spawnpoint causes an appropriate card in your hand to be discarded.

You can only cast spells on your turn. Nonmandatory enchantments can be revealed at any time.  Mages do not channel normally. Instead their controller can remove a card in their hand from the game to gain mana equal to its mana cost. When you do this, each nonmage object with the channeling trait that you control (spawnpoints and familiars etc.) gives your mage an extra mana that you can only use to cast the kind of spell it says on the spawnpoint or familiar. For instance, if you discard a timber wolf while you have fellella in play, you will gain 9 mana that you can use for anything, and another 1 mana that you can only use for casting enchantments (not revealing them). The spawnpoint or familiar is still considered the source of the spell.

There is no deploy phase. Spawnpoints use ready markers. Familiars give you an extra action that can only be used for the kind of spell it says it can on their card description.

There is no first or final quickcast phase, though. When you run out of cards in your deck, shuffle the cards in your removed from play zone and use this as your new deck.

Draw one card a turn, with the option to remove it from play and draw again as many times as you like.

I'm not sure what else to add, just that this seems really clunky. The stuff I thought of doesn't look like it will run all that smoothly, and I'm not even sure if it's possible to balance properly with mage wars cards. You're probably better off waiting for academy to release later this year. I demoed it at origins a couple days ago, and I can tell you that it is basically what you are (probably) looking for in the OP, except better.

Although it might help to say what your requisites are for considering something a "traditional card game" (you mean like a CCG?). What kind of game would you want it to be? How would it feel to play? When you imagine this format, what are the particular reasons for each design choice? For instance, what are your reasons for wanting it to be 7 cards in hand and drawing each turn from a randomized deck? If it's because that adds to the "traditional CCG" feel for the sense of familiarity, and you're trying to maximize that feel using mage wars cards, like trying to combine the nostalgia of your childhood MTG experience with the novelty of mage wars, then it might make sense. But if you would rather go for something that has only just enough of a CCG-like feel for the sake of shorter, simpler gameplay and still be balanced and still feel like mage wars, and that you can convince your friends to play, then it doesn't make so much sense. One of the defining things in mage wars is the strategic freedom and control that comes with not having to rely on card draw. If the "seven cards in hand thing" is for reducing analysis paralysis, try just reducing the size of the spellbook, or keeping the spellbooks organized by type and mana cost.

If it's the first option, the "nostalgia" route, I would suggest trying to make a fusion of magic the gathering and mage wars so you can play both kinds of cards together. People have done it with yugioh and mtg and (IMO) to great success. It probably would be difficult to do if not impossible with the base game (because of movement and stuff, not to mention you'd have to find some way of randomizing the attacks from mtg creatures as dice rolls, otherwise the balance of a lot of mage wars creatures and attacks gets a bit out of whack.

If it's the second option, the "shorter, simpler gameplay that I can convince my friends to play" route, you're better off just waiting for Academy to come out later this year, or just playing in apprentice mode.

A lot of the things you want to change, like having a deck that you shuffle and drawing 7 cards a turn, and changing the nature of certain traits either just doesn't work well or isn't necessary for a shorter version of mage wars with more of a CCG-like feel. (even with a more CCG-like feel, Mage Wars Academy is still Mage Wars and still has much of the basic design that makes the regular game so great, but in a simpler form. I'm not sure I can explain right now the ways in which it feels like a CCG and the ways in which it doesn't, since I don't know how much I'm allowed to talk about the Academy demo to people who didn't go to the convention, since even though they were willing to demo it for anyone who was there, they didn't want me to take pictures of it. (From what I understand it might not end up being the complete version.)

Hey, Arcane Wonders! How much of what I saw in the academy demo at origins am I allowed (or perhaps recommended) to talk about on the forums?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 07:44:11 pm by Sailor Vulcan »
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exid

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 12:28:17 am »

Hey, Arcane Wonders! How much of what I saw in the academy demo at origins am I allowed (or perhaps recommended) to talk about on the forums?


This is a total very totally official message from the AW board president-director:
"tell them all you know!"

jhaelen

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 06:19:49 am »
How do we add card draw into this game?
Okay, here's the obligatory naysayer's reply: Why the heck would I want to? If I'm removing everything from the game that makes it different from M:TG, why not just play M:TG?

Phoenix

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 07:21:42 am »
     
I had the opportunity to demo the up coming release of Mage Wars Academy. (hopefully released at GenCon 15). I believe that it is what you are looking for.  It plays like a standard card game and a game of mage wars. The turn sequence was normal mage wars with no planning phase. Mages can pull spells from their books as they activate the mage.
     The spell books contained about 40 spell points of spells, and some of these spells where just wonderful.  Many of them will find spots in full mage books without a doubt.
     The game was played in a single zone, imagine a small magical training dojo, instead of a large public arena. Initiative alternated from player to player after one activation.  Mages still have a quick cast marker and can still use it before or after any creatures actions.
     It was a nice hybrid between the Mage Wars we love and a traditional dueling mages card game.  I really got the feel for an apprentice mage training for the arena, lower life, less channeling, and spells which would slowly fade. It made for a wonderful doorstep into our beloved world.  Academy leads to apprentice to full mage in a logical and thematic method.
Bottom Line...... Loved it!

Bluebaron

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 08:03:00 am »
Thank you for the description of MW Academy. Sounds wonderful.

Phoenix

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 10:14:25 am »
     Even though academy spells cost less mana, tend to dissipate, and are generally (from my observation) level one, do not get the idea that they are insignificant.  There are many, and I do mean many, spell which would have gone straight into my normal Mage Wars spell book.
     This is an expansion that will allow me to carry just my spell book and duel in a coffee shop with any other apprentice.  The back cover showed a two-wheeled panel for keeping track of life and mana. I truly believe that academy will be the introduction game I need to spark interest, a Arcane Wonder(fully) expansion to the main game, and the mobile casual card game style game that is portable and quick to play, yet retains the theme, spell books, and flavor of the full game.

Bluebaron

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2015, 10:25:18 am »
Are there only new spells in the set? Or will we meet old  acquaintances like minor heal as well?

Any info about a possible release date?

Which mages have been demoed? Priestess and warlock or also the beastmaster and the wizard?

Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2015, 11:01:44 am »
Don't forget it was still a prototype, despite being available to demo. When I demoed they DID have a planning phase. Also, initiative only passed between rounds. Players still took turns activating creatures as normal.

They demoed both Bm v Wiz and Prst v Wlk.

They were taking about maybe possibly removing the starting mana from the academy mages.

There were only new spells in the set.
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Phoenix

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2015, 12:23:54 pm »
only new spells yes, however a lot of the spells seemed like less advanced versions of some normal spells.  Like there was a small hydra with double strike. For an example of an item that would have gone in a normal mage wars deck, there was a belt that granted regen 1 and armor 1. A dagger that had a set of stats for the level 4, academy mage and a bonus if it was wielded by a normal full fledge mage.
I want to emphasize that I played the prototype and the spells may be added, changed, or deleted.  The information I am sharing is just what I saw and experienced at Origins.
I for one, am very much looking forward to the Academy Expansion.

Bluebaron

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2015, 01:09:20 pm »
Great infos. I know it is only prototype. Nonetheless it gives good insights about the overall playstyle and feeling of the game. I am really looking forward to the release.

kiwipaul

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2015, 08:35:00 am »
This is a good idea.  Does anyone know how close this comes to the academy?

Phoenix

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 08:40:30 am »


How do we add card draw into this game?

Yuck!!!

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2015, 08:48:23 am »



How do we add card draw into this game?

Yuck!!!

You might want to be a bit nicer and a bit more specific than that...
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Phoenix

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Re: How do we turn this into a traditional card game?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2015, 10:40:06 am »
No, I am quite sure that "yuck" perfectly describes my emotional response to adding a draw mechanic to MW.  I have been a gamer for over 40 years and have gone through many phases of the types of games I enjoy.  Two of my favorites have been miniature gaming and MTG.
MW fills both of those loves, with nothing I dislike about each.  For miniature gaming i eschew unpainted miniatures, unfortunately as a single father there is not enough time for me to start painting again.  As for MTG, I played since the revised edition.  I love the idea of dueling wizards but had several issues with the game, beyond the chasing of rates.
     The first is that even a well tuned deck sometimes gets bad draws, lots of lands or no lands.  Either way you face a situation which is not much fun.  Your opponent runs away with the game, not due to your  misplay, but solely due to your random chance which is in the nature of card draw and shuffle.
     The second is the randomness to which spells are available.  Being an old D&D player I am used to my mages preparing spells for an adventure and using the most appropriate spell for the situation.  Mage Wars allows me to plan my spells, by preparing my book, and then use the most appropriate spell for the situation.  Why would I want to destroy one of the main mechanisms that make Mage Wars the "best game".
     That is why I believe "YUCK!" was the proper response.