October 06, 2022, 10:05:07 PM

Author Topic: Orbs and Posion Attacks  (Read 3767 times)

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Orbs and Posion Attacks
« on: August 14, 2015, 07:38:33 PM »
Conjurations (non-living ones) are Poison Immune, correct? Therefore the melee attack of a [mwcard=MWSTX2FFC06]Goblin Alchemist[/mwcard] can not "hit" an Orb, correct?
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

V10lentray

  • Member of Arcane Duels
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 749
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 03:58:52 PM »
I dont believe so.

All you do is need to be able to hit the orb to activate / deactivate it. You don't actually have to deal damage.

You don't even roll attack dice.
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 04:45:19 PM »
At work. Don't think it can even target.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 04:46:23 PM »
I am not so sure:

Quote
Hit (Game Term)
If an attack reaches the Damage & Effects Step then it is considered to have “hit” its target. If this step is skipped (for example, the attack misses due to a Daze condition, or is avoided by a Defense) or if the attack is canceled before this step can occur (for example, the target uses Divine Intervention to Teleport away), then the attack does not “hit”.

To get to the Damage and Effects Stage you have to of rolled at least one point of Damage. If I have this wrong I will have to fix it on OCTGN.

Immunity means it can be targeted in the first place, so if non-Living Conjurations are Poison Immune, the attacks like the Goblin Alchemist Melee attack can not target the Orb.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 07:03:37 PM »
You are correct about the Alchemist being unable to target the orb in the first place, and thus can not "Hit" it. However, you are wrong about there being any sort of requirement to get to the Damage and Effects stage. An attack will actually go through every combat step, regardless of if they are relevant, unless something specifically says otherwise. The definition of hit lists some things that do specifically skip Damage and Effects, but merely failing to deal damage does not.

So, I have to go through Damage and Effects even if there is no damage or effect to apply, I have to go through Damage Barrier even if the defender has none, and I have to go through Counterstrike even if the defender can't make one. Basically I enter the step and say "Does anything happen? No? Moving on." In practice, it's not really much different than seeing that they are irrelevant and then skipping ahead, but as far as game rules go you do pass through the steps and not over them.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 09:18:58 PM »
Good to know. So in order to score a "Hit" all a creature has do is get to the Damage and Effects Phase, and regardless of rolling any damage in the preceding step, as long as it was a melee based attack, it
would score a Hit?

Official Ruling requested here, as this means nothing new then, as we already had this without an official name. I made the assumption the difference was damage had to be scored, though not necessarily registered, in order to have a "Hit". Further, how can no damage result in a "Hit" if the object in question doesn't score damage in the first place.

Hitting without rolling damage makes not one iota of sense.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 09:31:54 PM »
Consider a 0 die attack. It hits, just has no damage, ever.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 09:57:28 PM »
Consider a 0 die attack. It hits, just has no damage, ever.
If the effect die rolls under then nothing happens. 0 Die represent the inability to cause damage. Does no one think there should ever be a "miss". Because according to this logic, no matter what you do, what you roll, what happens, as long as you get to this specific phase, it is always a Hit? Never ever a chance for a miss? Come on! Even Conan had to throw that grappling hook more than once on occasion!
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2015, 11:17:26 PM »
Procedural representation: Daze and Defenses are the miss chance. Armor and Life are, well, Armor and how alive you are.

If you do no damage because of armor, the game represents that you hit the target's armor, and thus the target. If it were a game of tag, it would count. It just doesn't leave an injury.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 09:27:59 AM »
Procedural representation: Daze and Defenses are the miss chance. Armor and Life are, well, Armor and how alive you are.

If you do no damage because of armor, the game represents that you hit the target's armor, and thus the target. If it were a game of tag, it would count. It just doesn't leave an injury.
Ugh, I know, but every once in a while the guy without high dexterity should be able to avoid a hit. I read the brilliant article about THAC0 and it explained alot to me and my way of thinking. Ugh
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: Orbs and Posion Attacks
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2015, 10:02:46 AM »
Ugh, I know, but every once in a while the guy without high dexterity should be able to avoid a hit. I read the brilliant article about THAC0 and it explained alot to me and my way of thinking. Ugh

Then I suggest you try out following houserule:
every creature gains an inifinity-useable defence of 12.
(when you roll a 12 with the d12 you avoid the hit)

Could give some interesting games :P
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.