September 24, 2020, 12:23:00 AM

Author Topic: Inclusion of Force Hammer  (Read 2925 times)

Nealo

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Inclusion of Force Hammer
« on: August 20, 2015, 01:54:33 AM »
As a newer player, I look at a card like Force Hammer and feel like it has a place in every spellbook. Conjurations, in my experience, are generally the most troublesome cards. They generally have decently high health and at least some armor and often effect the global game state. They are generally very powerful and it seems that in many games the turning point of a game comes down to whether or not someone is able to kill a powerful conjuration (especially spawnpoints).

So I guess my question is: why not just include a Force Hammer in every deck? Even if it's out of school, it's so strong against conjurations and so many mages rely on conjurations to make their spellbook work. I'm not advocating for more than 1, so if you don't end up needing it it's not the end of the world and hasn't gobbled too many spell points. Not to mention that it's still a six dice ethereal attack with a slam possibility. Anyway I feel like I see a lot of books that don't include it and I always wonder why.

Can someone shed some light on this for me? I'm curious if I'm overlooking something or maybe underestimating the spellbook point cost. Thanks!

Boocheck

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 03:39:51 AM »
Hi :)

Each player has its own style and also different gameplay or meta enviroment aroun him. Laddifance itself is pretty much in love with this spell, so you are right about its efficiency.

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aridigas

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 05:09:37 AM »
I'm not quite sold on Force Hammer. There are some books that I include one or even two, but mostly in Forcemaster-books. For the same amount of spellbookpoints (or even less) I can include a Hurl Boulder, which has the same Slam-chance, but one die more against creatures. It has one fewer die against conjurations, but I believe that a Force Hammer always comes short against conjurations that really matter. 8 dice of damage versus a Wizard's Tower? That's 7 health and 3 armor. Probably won't kill it. I just wasted 9 mana and 7 dice on the enemy mage. Battleforge? 6 crits on 8 dice? May work. But it could not work as well. When it's really important to bring a Battleforge down, I'd rather use 2 Geysers for 8 mana and 12 dice. They'll probably give me my 6 crits.
(Disclaimer: Maybe I need to sacrifice some dices to Akiro.)

Force Hammer is ethereal, but gets his 2 bonus dice only against corporeal conjurations. Maybe it's better to just cast 2 Invisible Fists against something incorporeal. That's not too action efficient, but if you don't want to spend 2 actions on that threat, it probably isn't dangerous enough. You're better off ignoring it.


But when you manage to kill off an important conjuration with just one Force Hammer, it may grant you a HUGE advantage, that's right.

iNano78

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 09:00:40 AM »
Probably half my books include a Force Hammer.  I agree that some conjurations can be a nuisance, and while others have suggested casting two attack spells and other options, often the conjuration you need to take out isn't susceptible to that damage type (e.g. while 2 Geysers work great against Battleforge or a Wall of Fire, they won't help you against pretty much anything else) or you can't afford the actions to cast two attack spells.  I know Hurl Boulder is good at hitting creatures or finishing off a mage, but the game provides lots of ways to damage creatures; there are fewer good ways to deal damage to conjurations, and quite often Force Hammer is just as good as a Boulder if all you need to do is finish off a creature.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 09:06:34 AM »
Personally, I feel that if you're not trained in Earth and you don't have a plethora of assess to Ethereal attacks, you should choose Force Hammer. That said, Hurl Bolder is always a fantastic card as well. Just my general thoughts.

aridigas

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2015, 09:25:09 AM »
Maybe it's because I played too much Forcemaster during the last weeks, but I never lack any ethereal attacks.
Yep, it's absolutely the Forcemaster's fault. Galvitar, Invisible Fist, Stalker...
Force Hammer can do what a Boulder does almost as good as a boulder. And a Boulder does what a Hammer does almost as good a Hammer. Because of that the 1 mana difference seals the deal for me

iNano78

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2015, 09:33:30 AM »
Force Hammer can do what a Boulder does almost as good as a boulder. And a Boulder does what a Hammer does almost as good a Hammer. Because of that the 1 mana difference seals the deal for me

Agreed, but I find the demand for "what a Hammer does" outweighs the demand for "what a Boulder does" (mainly because there are oodles of ways to do what "a Boulder does" - aka finish off corporeal creatures) and since the Hammer does what it does it a little better (albeit for +1 mana), I tend to prefer the Hammer.
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aridigas

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 10:05:52 AM »
You have a very valid point there. Seems like it comes down to personal preference. And that's awesome! You can't just say that one card is better than another, because both of them have situation in which they outclass each other.

Nealo

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 12:10:48 PM »
Ooh, very good points all around! I hadn't thought of some of these things. Really good arguments!

Quote
I'm not quite sold on Force Hammer. There are some books that I include one or even two, but mostly in Forcemaster-books. For the same amount of spellbookpoints (or even less) I can include a Hurl Boulder, which has the same Slam-chance, but one die more against creatures. It has one fewer die against conjurations, but I believe that a Force Hammer always comes short against conjurations that really matter. 8 dice of damage versus a Wizard's Tower? That's 7 health and 3 armor. Probably won't kill it. I just wasted 9 mana and 7 dice on the enemy mage. Battleforge? 6 crits on 8 dice? May work. But it could not work as well. When it's really important to bring a Battleforge down, I'd rather use 2 Geysers for 8 mana and 12 dice. They'll probably give me my 6 crits.

You make a really good point about Hurl Boulder. Eight mana and it rolls seven against creatures and conjurations alike. It is slightly more versatile, and I see what you mean about not being able to kill conjurations. It's a bit risky to count on Force Hammer to roll well enough to one-shot conjurations.

Quote
I agree that some conjurations can be a nuisance, and while others have suggested casting two attack spells and other options, often the conjuration you need to take out isn't susceptible to that damage type (e.g. while 2 Geysers work great against Battleforge or a Wall of Fire, they won't help you against pretty much anything else) or you can't afford the actions to cast two attack spells.

I also agree with this. I feel very torn about surging wave, for example, as an answer to battle forge. In general a lot of attack spells that are there to deal with specific conjurations just feel like dead weight once the conjuration is dead or if for some reason you have to fight through some creatures or walls to get to the conjuration. That's one of the things I love about Mage Wars, there really is no cut and dry solution for a problem. There are many effective spells, but often there is no "hard counter."

This definitely changes my thinking about Force Hammer and I can definitely see why some people don't run one in every deck.

V10lentray

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2015, 01:47:49 PM »
I always include a force hammer in every book.

If it's not there to break conjutrations it's there for ethereal damage. I also always pack a couple of water spells such as Surging wave, to destroy Battle Forges.
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sIKE

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2015, 02:32:23 PM »
I always include a force hammer in every book.

If it's not there to break conjutrations it's there for ethereal damage. I also always pack a couple of water spells such as Surging wave, to destroy Battle Forges.
The comparison between [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard] and Force Hammer does match up for me. SW is good against a Battleforge, the Push + Slam chance against Guards, and as an additional attempt at a second Push though a Wall of Thorns, not guaranteed, but it rolls its own attack dice and if it gets the Push, even better. So I see SW has having a good bit of utility. FH is good for two things, a large amount of Damage against Conjurations and as pretty decent finisher.
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DaveW

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2015, 04:55:58 PM »
I usually put in both a Force Hammer and a Hurl Boulder. The latter normally is saved for use as a finisher. The Hammer is in the book for hitting certain conjurations that I don't like (Hand of BS, for example), or something incorporeal that I can't get at otherwise (Pentagram, for example). If I don't use the Hammer earlier, it's good as a second finisher.

I also put in a couple of water spells... always a Surging Wave for use against a Battle Forge... never use the Force Hammer against a Battle Forge. (Ever since Surging Wave came out, I generally stopped using a Forge because it would die the turn after I brought it out.)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 08:26:37 PM by DaveW »
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RomeoXero

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Re: Inclusion of Force Hammer
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 12:10:17 AM »
Yeah i had this same question but i was on the other side of the fence. After careful consideration though i find im still in the boulder camp. The one mana difference is pretty much what sold it. but the fact that it always does 7 is why i almost always have at least one in any book.
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