December 06, 2021, 08:29:05 AM

Author Topic: Trogdor the Burninator  (Read 7869 times)

Coshade

  • Arcane Duels Host
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1935
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
    • Arcane Duels!
Re: Trogdor the Burninator
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 11:02:56 PM »
Love this build! This book is HOT! If you want to develop your skill against ranged mages this is the best training book. If you mess up it punishes you.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

SharkBait

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 701
  • Banana Stickers 10
    • View Profile
Re: Trogdor the Burninator
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2015, 07:56:08 PM »
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Trogdor 3 - The book that could[/spellbookname]
[mage]A Adramelech Warlock Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1A04]3 x Fireball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1A06]4 x Flameblast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]1 x Hurl Rock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA01]2 x Devil's Trident[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]2 x Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1A02]1 x Dragon's Breath[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]1 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1A12]1 x Ring of Fire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1J04]1 x Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J12]2 x Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J19]1 x Deathlock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWPROMO4]1 x Ballista[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]2 x Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E27]3 x Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E14]1 x Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E24]2 x Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E19]2 x Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E21]1 x Hawkeye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E40]1 x Vampirism[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E38]1 x Teleport Trap[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E22]2 x Hellfire Trap[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWPROMO79]1 x Blur[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E01]1 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E31]1 x Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1Q06]1 x Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ01]1 x Cloak of Shadows[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q14]1 x Lash of Hellfire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q10]1 x Fireshaper Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q28]1 x Ring of Curses[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]1 x Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q21]1 x Moloch's Torment[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWPROMO53]1 x Gloves of Skill[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ09]1 x Wand of Healing[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q23]1 x Regrowth Belt[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1I06]2 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I07]2 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I24]1 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I12]2 x Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI05]1 x Ignite[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I28]1 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I11]1 x Explode[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1C16]2 x Flaming Hellion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C03]1 x Dark Pact Slayer[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]


Trogdor's back, WOOOOOOOO....oooo...

Alright, so there are some obvious differences between the GenCon version and the 'Dome II version.

First card of note: Blur. This promo is probably my favorite along with the next one. For those who don't play on OCTGN much, Blur gives the target the Obscured trait. Given my propensity to constantly undervalue armor, this card goes a long way to keeping me alive. It does many other things too, but that's the reason I run it. It's a bridge until I cast the cloak (if I even need to cast the cloak)

Next: Gloves of Skill. The other favorite card addition to this book. This allows me to reroll the dice for a ranged attack, similar to Akiro's favor. I generally thought of it as an Akiro's Favor that I could cast from the battleforge.

Other differences:
CREATURES: Oh my god I added some.
IT'S A TARP. I threw some traps in for the fun of it. Honestly, though they helped in one game, had I had the time to tinker more like I wanted then these would not have made the 'Dome book's cut. That last sentence kinda sums up the book for me, actually. I'll get to that in a minute.


Ok, so, those are the highlights (at least those that I can remember) of the different cards I added to this book. Unfortunately, I have been feeling since almost exactly a month ago now (due date for book turn in was 18 Sept.) that life got a bit busy and I didn't get to tinker enough with the new ideas. The book was a bit unfocused, and lacked the gas to do what I wanted to do in some cases. The newer versions that I've been running with lately are able to saturate a playstyle that I pick to run. I've never really been short of the attack spells, but some important curses I wish I had brought more. I also don't think Ghoul rot is a good spell for this book due to the cost and ease of removal. I have added more enfeebles, and cut mage bane and ghoul rot in order for more copies of other curses that I really can't remember off the top of my head that you'll probably see when I update this from the next tournament :P.

In general, the play style has changed from solo rush to more of a controlled aggression with a huge burst finish with the right setup. I've found that just the threat of a high damage burst still puts opponents on the defensive sometimes when they don't need to be. I've also started getting used to running a few creatures because if there is something this book still lacks, it's enough actions.
My lack of experience with creatures definitely hurt me in the American finals match, but there is always something to get better at. The issue with the current stock of demons is that the ones with the flame attack type are either imps or really expensive. I didn't feel comfortable enough to run an imp swarm, and it took a lot of effort to work some of the heavier creatures into my build/play rhythm. I spent a LONG time game planning for the 2nd round and felt comfortable with way I could get the creatures out. I got almost no time and no film to watch for the finals, and I believe I hesitated a few times when I had a creature prepared. I also spent some time casting curses instead of keeping up with actions first. That'll probably be the next direction I head in my practicing to make this book run a bit better.

All of that being said, the book was good to me and I was able to use it to make it to the American side finals in the Thunderdome II, which is the best finish I have had yet. I'll probably edit this post at some point to add more tidbits that I can remember, but I wanted to get these thoughts down first and go from there.

EDIT: I'm already hanging my head in shame for not mentioning the most valuable card in this book.

DEATHLOCK. This is my favorite and will continue to be my favorite conjuration. This conjuration is difficult to deal with when used at the right time, and I played my worst game when I didn't cast it. Something something Correlation causation. Either way, this is the grease that lets this engine run the way it does. Great card
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 07:03:09 AM by SharkBait »
  • Favourite Mage: Adramelech Warlock
When in doubt, kill it with fire

Schwenkgott

  • Thunderdome
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1430
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Trogdor the Burninator
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2015, 08:42:00 AM »
The worst thing that happened to me when playing my old facemelter was the dissolve of Gloves or Ring and the Dispel of Hawkeye. You only got these cards once. With that many attack spells that need these cards to be active, have you thought about running these cards twice or more often?
Akiro, I have never prayed to you before. No one will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that one stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Akiro... so grant me strength! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

SharkBait

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 701
  • Banana Stickers 10
    • View Profile
Re: Trogdor the Burninator
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2015, 09:18:00 AM »
I have considered it, and most of the iterations after this one have doubles of each of those. Typically, i find that most of my opponents don't actually go after those because they don't like to get close to me. That doesn't mean that'll last forever though. I could also probably adjust when I cast them to make the most use of them instead of just having them sit there on me while I build up a creature base.



Also, side note: WOOOO 100 posts! I'm a real boy!
  • Favourite Mage: Adramelech Warlock
When in doubt, kill it with fire

Borg

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Trogdor the Burninator
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2015, 10:16:47 AM »
Hi SharkBait,

The Adramelech Warlock is one of my two favourite mages.
I enjoy playing her a lot.
So, obviously I'm curious about your book, how you play her, what you focus on and what differences we have.

Please allow me to post my current build here as well so it's easier to compare.

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname][/spellbookname]
[mage]Adramelech Warlock[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]2 x  Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a04]4 x  Fireball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a12]1 x  Ring of Fire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a06]6 x  Flameblast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]1 x  Hurl Rock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]3 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j22]2 x  Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]1 x  Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x  Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j04]1 x  Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]1 x  Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j19]1 x  Deathlock[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c16]1 x  Flaming Hellion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c03]1 x  Dark Pact Slayer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE01]1 x  Adramelech's Touch[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e21]1 x  Hawkeye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]1 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e09]3 x  Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e14]3 x  Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]1 x  Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e24]1 x  Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]2 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]1 x  Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]1 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1q10]1 x  Fireshaper Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q28]1 x  Ring of Curses[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q16]1 x  Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x  Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q08]1 x  Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q19]1 x  Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q06]1 x  Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ01]1 x  Cloak of Shadows[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q23]1 x  Regrowth Belt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]1 x  Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i12]1 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI03]1 x  Disarm[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]3 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]2 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

The first difference of course are the promo cards. I won't comment on them as I don't have them and thus don't use them.

I see you have 2 mana crystals. Do you play them both most of the time ?
I tend to play BF + Crystal as an opening and start building up after that and I find I have enough mana throughout the game ( if you can ever have enough of course ) ;)

Marked for Death is a 3x for you while I have none.
I had them too but found out I never played them.
All other curses give Fire +1 too anyway so you lose just 1 die but gain an effect which I value a lot more than a simple +1 die.

I tend to focus on the opposing mage and try to neutralize opposing creatures with just 1 curse / 1 action so that I get a mana advantage out of it.

I like to build up some armor (2-4) and then play an Agony ( 4 mana ) on a opposing critter in the 8-10 mana range with 4-5 dice, thereby reducing their dice to 2-3 which I can relatively ignore with my 2-4 armor.

Tougher creatures often get an Enfeeble. I tend to move the FireLock around all the time so the Enfeebled can't hit me. Enfeeble on a non-static mage is a must imo as is Adramelech's Touch usually.

The Ghoul Rot and Magebane are often used to probe for Nullifies.

Are there any specific situations when you use the Devil's Trident ? I find it relatively expensive and it's an avoidable attack and I would think it's used primarily to get a Cripple effect though there's only a 50% chance to that. Is it more effective than Enfeeble iyo ?

The traps obviously need to be replaced :)

Moloch's Torment.
Yes, it's a fit but it has done so little for me that I've removed it.
It's great to finish off a critter with just 1 life left but since I tend to work around creatures if I can it's no big help. How does it fare with you ?

Explode.
Another card I had in there but never used. Do you use it ?
A potential finisher but I usually like the Burn counters more.
Mostly the Mage has not enough counters on him yet or he's not close enough damagewise for a finishing blow

Elemental Wand
I like to have one available so I can put a Wave/Rock/Hammer on it for multiple use.

Mage Wand
Haven't used this yet with her but feel reluctant to drop it.

I also run a Mongoose Agility. Combined with Enfeeble on the enemy this can really buy you time.

Enchanter's Wardstone as a counter vs Purge magic should my curse total on the mage go over 2.

Tanglevines.
Those are spells I'm surprised not to see.
I added them specifically to get around Interceptors.
How do you handle a Guardian Angel or Gargoyle ?

Congratulations on reaching the final SharkBait :)
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster

SharkBait

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 701
  • Banana Stickers 10
    • View Profile
Re: Trogdor the Burninator
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2015, 11:47:54 AM »
I love getting to discuss this stuff. Here we go

Quote
The first difference of course are the promo cards. I won't comment on them as I don't have them and thus don't use them.

Understandable, I only run them during the Thunderdome tournaments

Quote
I see you have 2 mana crystals. Do you play them both most of the time ?
This is a relatively new part of the book and is still open to tuning. In the 'Dome II, I did end up casting both in each game, and the extra mana definitely helped. I felt more comfortable and was able to save up for things I normally would ignore. With Academy coming out, I'm experimenting replacing a crystal with a wispwillow amulet or two to see how it goes. I'll report more on that later once I've thoroughly tested it.

Quote
Marked for Death is a 3x for you while I have none.
Being that it's a level 1 curse, I generally think of it as my default Nullify probe. If it happens to stick, the extra damage is really nice, especially when combined with the Flaming Hellion's attack.

Quote
I like to build up some armor (2-4) and then play an Agony ( 4 mana ) on a opposing critter in the 8-10 mana range with 4-5 dice, thereby reducing their dice to 2-3 which I can relatively ignore with my 2-4 armor.

That's an interesting idea, I like it. I may look into running Agony more. So much experimenting to do still.

Adramelech's Touch is definitely in the "I wish I played this version instead" book that I've had more recently.
Quote
The Ghoul Rot and Magebane are often used to probe for Nullifies.

I have cut GR and keep going back and forth on Magebane. I feel it's a somewhat overrated curse (for this book) that doesn't add much value. Some days I'm all for keeping it, other days I'm pretty "meh" about it.

Quote
Are there any specific situations when you use the Devil's Trident ? I find it relatively expensive and it's an avoidable attack and I would think it's used primarily to get a Cripple effect though there's only a 50% chance to that. Is it more effective than Enfeeble iyo ?

This spell has a TON of utility. It still does some pretty great damage (can be buffed up to 7-8 dice) and still cause a burn. The cripple is a nice extra effect, but I've found that relying on it only disappoints you. Treating it like a great bonus at least helps the mental mindset when using it. The REAL reason I keep it around is the piercing + 2. If you can pierce their armor and get lucky enough to cripple, then you are at a huge advantage. Side note: Akiro's favor makes this spell even better.

Quote
Moloch's Torment.
Yes, it's a fit but it has done so little for me that I've removed it.
It's great to finish off a critter with just 1 life left but since I tend to work around creatures if I can it's no big help. How does it fare with you ?

I generally only use the damage to hit the enemy mage. Direct damage is direct damage, no matter how small. I'm toying with switching to Adramelech's torment, but I still like Moloch's torment. It actually ended up helping me win the first round of the tournament.

Quote
Explode.
Another card I had in there but never used. Do you use it ?
A potential finisher but I usually like the Burn counters more.
Mostly the Mage has not enough counters on him yet or he's not close enough damagewise for a finishing blow

I really like explode because I can use it as a dissolve and throw some extra damage/burn on all in one action. If someone drops a hauberk really early, I can blow it up and flameblast and still put out 12 dice of damage with good burn chances and no flame - 2

Quote
Elemental Wand
I like to have one available so I can put a Wave/Rock/Hammer on it for multiple use.
Mage Wand
Haven't used this yet with her but feel reluctant to drop it.

I've RARELY had wands last long enough to make their value back. I typically have had more success just using the sbps on extra copies of the cards that I'd put on the wand. Of note: I have actually placed the wands back in the most recent builds in order to see if I can make them work.

Quote
I also run a Mongoose Agility. Combined with Enfeeble on the enemy this can really buy you time.
MA is in the newest builds. It was a good idea I took from your other post :P

Quote
Tanglevines.
Those are spells I'm surprised not to see.
I added them specifically to get around Interceptors.
How do you handle a Guardian Angel or Gargoyle ?
I used to run tanglevines, but the amount of teleports run in most books generally made these feel like a short term gimmick most of the time. Enfeeble can help a lot in terms of positioning and I generally view it as doing the same job.
Interceptors on the other hand mostly die in flames. If I can't kill them in short order, I'll probably push or tele them out of the way. Ideally, my creatures can help get rid of their guard marker too.

Quote
Enchanter's Wardstone as a counter vs Purge magic should my curse total on the mage go over 2.

I did run these at GenCon, and have considered bringing them back. Jury still out on this one, but I"ve only got 120 points to spend :P.

Quote
Congratulations on reaching the final SharkBait :)

Thank you! And thanks for the discussion, I always find this part to be fun and can spawn all kinds of new ideas.

  • Favourite Mage: Adramelech Warlock
When in doubt, kill it with fire