December 01, 2022, 07:52:59 AM

Author Topic: New mage: Prophet  (Read 6109 times)

sprz

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New mage: Prophet
« on: August 01, 2015, 09:35:17 PM »
 I found a mini Prophet extension on BGG and for the fun i created the card:



Prophet by SPRZ_2013, sur Flickr



Prophet_profile by SPRZ_2013, sur Flickr


sprz

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 10:09:32 PM »

PRI01 by SPRZ_2013, sur Flickr

keejchen

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 11:10:09 AM »
Wow, this is very cool. I will be printing this for personal use.

I had to read the premonition ability a few times, i think the wording could be better on that one.
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ringkichard

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 12:42:51 PM »
Premonition needs tightening up. As it stands, the opponent is almost certain to just put 2 in each zone. Better to give your opponent 1 mana than give away your plans or risk having to pay the mana penalty. Also, it needs clarification on when it happens during the planing phase. Can either mage change their cards after the premonition markers are down? Can more markers be placed?
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echephron

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 02:15:52 PM »
premonition rework and reword:
During planning phase, one opponent must attach 2-4 premonition tokens to any zones or objects. Every time that opponent targets something, he must either pay one mana or remove one premonition token attached to the target or it's zone. Prophet gains one mana whenever one of his premonition tokens is removed. At the end of the round remove all premonition tokens.

(reduce Prophet channelling by 2.)

i doubt people love this, but its what i came up with.
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Halewijn

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 02:16:38 PM »
Looks very cool! Where does it come from and what is BGG? Is this fan art?

About creating mages fan art, In one of the million posts of Sailor Vulcan he was talking about a centaur Johktari beastmaster. I actually agree with him that a centaur would have been awesome and thematically (fast and a bow). Same mage abilities, just a centaur...  ::)
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sprz

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 03:48:08 PM »
BGG = board game geek.

Hard to state about premonition without trying it. I suppose ACG playtested a bit. Of the problem with your rules echephron, if the opponent only plays 2 token and use them the prophet will always have 8 channeling which is low.

ACG

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 07:13:53 PM »
Just noticed this post; sprz already showed me the cards, and I was quite impressed with the quality.

It looks like some clarification on the premonition ability is desired:

The intent of Premonition is to force your opponent to tell you what they are going to do. If they don't place enough premonition tokens, they face a mana penalty, and if they place too many, they give you free mana. They therefore have an incentive to follow their indicated plans as clearly as possible. The ability is made even nastier with the book of prophecy, which inflicts damage on your opponent for each unfulfilled premonition.

Premonition needs tightening up. As it stands, the opponent is almost certain to just put 2 in each zone. Better to give your opponent 1 mana than give away your plans or risk having to pay the mana penalty. Also, it needs clarification on when it happens during the planing phase. Can either mage change their cards after the premonition markers are down? Can more markers be placed?

Your opponent can certainly do that, though this turns the prophet's ability into 11 channeling, which is formidable in its own right. The Book of Prophecy also makes this strategy extremely dangerous (borderline suicidal, in fact)  since the Prophet could cast the book after you have placed the premonitions for the round (fancy taking 24 direct damage at once?)

Good point about the timing. Should probably be moved to Upkeep to avoid timing issues.

premonition rework and reword:
During planning phase, one opponent must attach 2-4 premonition tokens to any zones or objects. Every time that opponent targets something, he must either pay one mana or remove one premonition token attached to the target or it's zone. Prophet gains one mana whenever one of his premonition tokens is removed. At the end of the round remove all premonition tokens.

(reduce Prophet channelling by 2.)

i doubt people love this, but its what i came up with.

I don't...love it. Not sure I see the advantage over the current version. It puts the prophet at a severe mana disadvantage, since his opponent has control over the tokens and he doesn't even gain the mana until the tokens are used up (contrasted with channeling at the start of the round). I would prefer to have a max of 1 on the mana gain and no max on the premonition tokens.


I am open to rewording as long as it is true to the intent of the ability. The challenge with this card was how to create mechanics that represent seeing the future.

wtcannonjr

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 05:52:17 AM »
I like Battle Prescience. I agree that Premonition needs work.

Why would an opponent ever place any markers? Zero is a number and no minimum is listed.

The ability has too many steps for its effect. Why not something simpler to execute each round? For example, "select an opponent at the end of the Planning phase. Select one planned spell and look at it. Return the spell to the opponent who keeps it ready for the current round."
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ACG

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 08:21:33 AM »
Why would an opponent ever place any markers? Zero is a number and no minimum is listed.

If you don't place markers then all your spells cost 1 additional mana.

The ability has too many steps for its effect. Why not something simpler to execute each round? For example, "select an opponent at the end of the Planning phase. Select one planned spell and look at it. Return the spell to the opponent who keeps it ready for the current round."

That is similar to what the crystal ball does. There are many ways to simulate seeing the future; the premonition ability is just one of them (and many of the prophet's cards experiment with others).

wtcannonjr

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 10:58:37 AM »
Why would an opponent ever place any markers? Zero is a number and no minimum is listed.

If you don't place markers then all your spells cost 1 additional mana.

I see. The current wording doesn't appear to cover spells that target the Arena or spells cast by Spawnpoints or Familiars. You may need to adjust the wording to include these. Also is the intended wording "cast a spell" or "cast and resolve a spell"?

This ability appears similar to a Channeling -2 effect if your opponent is planning to cast two spells a round and chooses to place zero markers. I am not a fan of tying this ability to a mana manipulation strategy but it does fit the Arcane school in that regard.

Overall it feels like it gives the opponent too much control over the Prophets ability to see the future. I would consider some effect that is more straightforward and identifies some type of information about the future that the opponent must reveal. For example, the opponent must declare what spell types were readied during the planning phase. E.g. a Conjuration and an Enchantment. This would be faster to execute each round then placing markers or showing specific cards.

Another approach is to think about the benefit the Prophet might receive from knowing pieces of the future and design the ability for those effects. For example a set of markers like the Anvil Throne Warlord except each one has a hidden effect. E.g. Avoid Attack, Counter Spell, Take Initiative, etc.

I agree there are many ways to approach the design of this type of effect.

How was it decided that this would be an Arcane trained mage? The ability to see the future seems more appropriate to the Mind school. It might also be an interesting design to give the Prophet training in all schools but only to certain levels. E.g. level 2 in all schools. This would reflect the ability to see the future and have an appropriate set of counter cards in the Prophets spellbook at the start of the battle. :)
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ACG

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Re: New mage: Prophet
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 02:30:28 PM »
I see. The current wording doesn't appear to cover spells that target the Arena or spells cast by Spawnpoints or Familiars. You may need to adjust the wording to include these. Also is the intended wording "cast a spell" or "cast and resolve a spell"?

The ability is not intended to apply to arena spells or spawnpoints/familiars; I wanted to keep it as simple as possible. "cast a spell" is correct, as the wording has the premonition markers (or mana) used as an additional cost of casting that spell.

Overall it feels like it gives the opponent too much control over the Prophets ability to see the future. I would consider some effect that is more straightforward and identifies some type of information about the future that the opponent must reveal. For example, the opponent must declare what spell types were readied during the planning phase. E.g. a Conjuration and an Enchantment. This would be faster to execute each round then placing markers or showing specific cards.

This isn't the entirety of the prophet's ability to see the future, but just an aspect. In this case, the prophet has feelings about the locations where things are going to happen. I agree that knowing what spell types/spells were readied is another excellent future sight power, but that is covered by the Crystal Ball. Placing markers should not take too much time. The prophet's abilities are strongly reflected in his Prophet only cards, namely:

Foresight (the most versatile spell in the game)
Staff of Clairvoyance (the prescient trait is much more powerful on a mage than on a creature since mages can spells)
Crystal Ball (tells you exactly what the enemy mage has prepared)
The Book of Prophecy (makes the prophet's innate premonitions much more binding and prevents the "place premonitions everywhere" tactic)

Another approach is to think about the benefit the Prophet might receive from knowing pieces of the future and design the ability for those effects. For example a set of markers like the Anvil Throne Warlord except each one has a hidden effect. E.g. Avoid Attack, Counter Spell, Take Initiative, etc.

That is a great idea that I may have to incorporate into a card or two. Much like the Anvil Throne Warlord's ability, it would require a separate explanation in the rulebook if used on the prophet's card.

How was it decided that this would be an Arcane trained mage? The ability to see the future seems more appropriate to the Mind school.

Arcane seemed like a better fit to me. I know precognitive powers are often associated with psychic 'flavors', but the predicting the future feels more like pure magic than flavored magic to me; seeing the future has nothing to do with manipulating or reading minds, and windows in time (and things like crystal balls) just seem to fit more in the pure arcane school. Somebody else (can't remember who at the moment) suggested that the holy school might also be a good fit, given the status of prophets in religions; I don't really see him as that sort of prophet, though. This is mostly just a personal flavor preference on my part.

If he were in the mind school, of course, some thought would need to be given to the types of creatures he would have, since any mind creatures would be usable by the forcemasters.

It might also be an interesting design to give the Prophet training in all schools but only to certain levels. E.g. level 2 in all schools. This would reflect the ability to see the future and have an appropriate set of counter cards in the Prophets spellbook at the start of the battle. :)

I feel that this is better accomplished through the Foresight spell. Prophets strike me as specialists (he should probably have an anti-training). I see what you are going for, though. Thanks for the suggestions; if I make another iteration I might incorporate some of them.