December 06, 2021, 09:43:35 AM

Author Topic: 3 rules problems  (Read 3313 times)

exid

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3 rules problems
« on: November 02, 2015, 12:36:44 AM »
We had recently 3 unusuely deep rules problems:

1) imunity
A imune creature is no legal target to an attack of it's imune element, so it can't intercept it (togorah can't intercept a hydro attack) and is a "total" guard to it (adramalech can't attack with sweeping when a firebrand imp guards).

2) purify
The X cost seems to be the total cost of eliminated poisons, but the text seems to tell to pay during the resolution step.

3) reveal enchantements
the rules' letter says after a step/phase/action + after an activation, but the rules' spirit says after any "event" (which is not defined).


I wanted to be sure I understand right where we are with these...
1)Laddinfance recently stated that the imunity rules will not change soon, so we have to play it as I described it above.
2) Laddifance stated that the spell cost is 0 and that all poisons' costs are paid, as written, during the resolution step (it's an exception to the normal paying rule)
3) nobody stated anithing clear and we play it as we want to, waiting for a new ruling (N.B.: I will follow the letter).

Did I miss something?

Wildhorn

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2015, 11:38:35 PM »
1) You bring an interesting point. I think Immunity keyword need an updated Codex entry. Should allow to be targeted but still be unaffected. No damage, no yellow dice, no effect, nothing, but still can be a target. Else this create very weird situation as you described.

2) The X is a place holder more than anything since nothing in the spell effect define the X. So you just cast it for free and then you can pay mana to remove conditions/enchantments.

3) Basically, anytime, except during something, like during movement (you can before or after, but not while the player is moving the card on the board) or during a dice roll (you can before or after, but not while they roll on the table).

exid

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2015, 11:57:22 PM »
1) You bring an interesting point. I think Immunity keyword need an updated Codex entry. Should allow to be targeted but still be unaffected. No damage, no yellow dice, no effect, nothing, but still can be a target. Else this create very weird situation as you described.

2) The X is a place holder more than anything since nothing in the spell effect define the X. So you just cast it for free and then you can pay mana to remove conditions/enchantments.

3) Basically, anytime, except during something, like during movement (you can before or after, but not while the player is moving the card on the board) or during a dice roll (you can before or after, but not while they roll on the table).

my point was not to reopen these discussions (we allready had pages and pages!) but to try to close them...
I tried to summarry the discussions, but i'm not sure i didn't miss something.

Zuberi

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 12:18:16 AM »
3) Basically, anytime, except during something, like during movement (you can before or after, but not while the player is moving the card on the board) or during a dice roll (you can before or after, but not while they roll on the table).

As Exid stated, I don't wish to reopen discussions on these, but I do feel like pointing out that Enchantments can be revealed during a Move Action.

wtcannonjr

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 06:01:33 AM »
We had recently 3 unusuely deep rules problems:

1) imunity
A imune creature is no legal target to an attack of it's imune element, so it can't intercept it (togorah can't intercept a hydro attack) and is a "total" guard to it (adramalech can't attack with sweeping when a firebrand imp guards).

2) purify
The X cost seems to be the total cost of eliminated poisons, but the text seems to tell to pay during the resolution step.

3) reveal enchantements
the rules' letter says after a step/phase/action + after an activation, but the rules' spirit says after any "event" (which is not defined).


I wanted to be sure I understand right where we are with these...
1)Laddinfance recently stated that the imunity rules will not change soon, so we have to play it as I described it above.
2) Laddifance stated that the spell cost is 0 and that all poisons' costs are paid, as written, during the resolution step (it's an exception to the normal paying rule)
3) nobody stated anithing clear and we play it as we want to, waiting for a new ruling (N.B.: I will follow the letter).

Did I miss something?

I concur with your first two conclusions, but we are playing #3 using 4th edition rules which in my view have clarified the previous rules on revealing enchantments. I think I would replace your #3 term about "rules' spirit" to something like "previous rules".
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exid

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 06:59:31 AM »
I concur with your first two conclusions, but we are playing #3 using 4th edition rules which in my view have clarified the previous rules on revealing enchantments. I think I would replace your #3 term about "rules' spirit" to something like "previous rules".
For me the 4th edition seems clear too, but I'm not sure that everybody agreed that (for example) there is no revealing during the upkeep, since there is no step/phase/action ending during this phase.

Wildhorn

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2015, 01:44:40 AM »
I concur with your first two conclusions, but we are playing #3 using 4th edition rules which in my view have clarified the previous rules on revealing enchantments. I think I would replace your #3 term about "rules' spirit" to something like "previous rules".
For me the 4th edition seems clear too, but I'm not sure that everybody agreed that (for example) there is no revealing during the upkeep, since there is no step/phase/action ending during this phase.

Indeed, since Upkeep is a phase, there can't be an ending phase during a phase. So you can only reveal before or after upkeep.

Wildhorn

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2015, 01:50:31 AM »
3) Basically, anytime, except during something, like during movement (you can before or after, but not while the player is moving the card on the board) or during a dice roll (you can before or after, but not while they roll on the table).

As Exid stated, I don't wish to reopen discussions on these, but I do feel like pointing out that Enchantments can be revealed during a Move Action.

Damn, that's true. Now it is divided in steps. I didn't keep up with rule updates since a long time. We were still playing as move action without steps.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 02:20:00 AM by Wildhorn »

Halewijn

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2015, 03:13:55 AM »
This rule is weird because during a game I never move, wait, rethink, move again or move, wait, think, attack. It's just 1 action. "I move and attack". Someone would never be quick enough to reveal during a move and you would ALWAYS have a discussion.

Also, If you reveal enfeeble after moving 1 zone, you basically make him slow AFTER he moved. So during his move action he wasn't slow so he's able to do another quick action. the slow didn't work yet.

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Sailor Vulcan

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3 rules problems
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2015, 07:43:33 AM »
This rule is weird because during a game I never move, wait, rethink, move again or move, wait, think, attack. It's just 1 action. "I move and attack". Someone would never be quick enough to reveal during a move and you would ALWAYS have a discussion.

Also, If you reveal enfeeble after moving 1 zone, you basically make him slow AFTER he moved. So during his move action he wasn't slow so he's able to do another quick action. the slow didn't work yet.

Imagine how slowing down a creature would look like in real life compared to stumbling them and you should be able to see how it makes sense that gaining the slow trait doesn't counter the first move action once it's already in progress, only prevents the second. This is similar to how a creature can't gain or lose flying in the middle of attacking or being attacked, only at the beginning and the end of the attack.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 07:46:12 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Wildhorn

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Re: 3 rules problems
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2015, 08:22:05 AM »
What is the advantage of tabletopia over OCTGN? The OCTGN guys worked hard and now it works really smooth. Of course you can always find some errors.

(genuinely wondering, I'm not familiar with tabletopia)

Wrong thread.