October 26, 2021, 12:54:41 PM

Author Topic: Let's talk Holy Avenger  (Read 6833 times)

RomeoXero

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Let's talk Holy Avenger
« on: November 17, 2015, 04:56:06 PM »
So lately I've been doing a lot of experimentation with the Malaki Priest. And I'm super pleased with the results so far, and I thought I'd share a few things I've discovered about HA with the crew here. Many of the criticisms I hear about the HA are about how it's up to the opponent to decide what benefit you get and folks don't like that. Also many will say "why not just use bull endurance and be a priestess" or rather "I wouldn't bull endurance my creatures any way so why bother?" and I suppose those are valid concerns, but they aren't looking at the big picture.

The way I see it by making a creature your Holy Avenger, for the price of one enchantment (or less, usually around 3 or 4 mana) you gain the benefits of 2 enchants ( bear strength or lion savagery for mellee + and piercing. And a better bull endurance than the actual spell)! That having been said let's look at the outcome. I spend 8 mana on an Asyran Defender, plus 3 for HA. He goes from squishyish 8 to 13 life (i think) and from 3 dice to potentially 5 dice. Yes you can't always use the mellee + but the 5 life is always there! You have also saved yourself 2 quick actions and 9 + mana (by not needing to cast those enchants) and added longevity and umph to a relatively ok creature before.

In addition to the outright bonuses added to the creature the fact is that human creatures appear to be weak life wise, 8 to 11 seems to be the wheel house (and 11 is brogan! Even legendary humans only have 1 more life than a timber wolf) and that's really easy to focus down. Even a 10 life knight of Westlock will die to 2 or 3 decent rolls. So adding half its life again makes it crazy survivable! A Heal works far better on a creature with more life to avoid over healing. The more life a creature has the longer it takes to kill meaning more action expenditure on your opponents part. If you can deny two or three actions with one quick spell heal ( such a great spell!) you're up on tempo.

As expensive as it may be a HA Guardian Angel does not die! She will take so many resources to take down that you can keep her on the defence for rounds and rounds with little or no help past HA.

Side note, it helps you not at all in domination!

An HA cleric makes a crazy efficient back pack healer! So does the unicorn but in a different way.

Gotta move on, starting to ramble, Let me know what you think! Thanks everyone!
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
I love this game. Its awesome!

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 05:30:44 PM »
nobody is saying the ability is bad. But compared to other abilities it feels below average. Apart from that, once there are a few more level 2 holy creatures this ability will be much better.

I can even see some use in domination. You attack a slakk, he counters, and your avenger can go berserk.

  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

Boocheck

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 04:11:42 AM »
~Memory Wipe Activated~

With PvS and more Academy mages, i think there will be lot of new and usefull cards, that will serve Priest Greatly.

Also, despite the fact that priest is not that Uber good in tournaments, he still generates great ammounts of fun and i am really looking forward to upcoming months :)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 04:13:49 AM by Boocheck »
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
I am one with the force, the force is with me! (Warlord is still my fav mage ;) )

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 04:17:35 AM »
~Memory Wipe Activated~

With PvS and more Academy mages, i think there will be lot of new and usefull cards, that will serve Priest Greatly.

Also, despite the fact that priest is not that Uber good in tournaments, he still generates great ammounts of fun and i am really looking forward to upcoming months :)

^ this
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

Mystery

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 04:50:43 AM »
just for the holy avanger asyran defender example: it costs 11mana for 9+def 2/13 3(5) dice attack for 2mana more you can just cast a KoW with 8+ 3/10 5dice always. And as priestess channels 1more (its just two rounds) and she still has other abilities.

but there will be more usefull cards :D

Coshade

  • Arcane Duels Host
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1935
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
    • Arcane Duels!
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 10:48:15 AM »
It's a good comparison mystery. The defender also gets pierce 1 and is only lvl 2. I would call it balanced between the two options (although my preference is the defender).
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Werekingdom

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2016, 05:46:03 PM »
The problem I see is that Holy Avenger gains the melee bonus when another holy creature OR conjuration is attack. So if you rush forward and cast a creature + HA, then the opponent could just atk the mage, HA or non-holy conjuration thus depriving you of the melee bonus altogether.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest
Kill with Tanglevine

Puddnhead

  • Member of Arcane Duels; MageCast Co-host
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1547
  • Banana Stickers 8
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2016, 07:18:55 PM »
The problem I see is that Holy Avenger gains the melee bonus when another holy creature OR conjuration is attack. So if you rush forward and cast a creature + HA, then the opponent could just atk the mage, HA or non-holy conjuration thus depriving you of the melee bonus altogether.

Holy Avenger gains the bonus on friendly creatures not just holy creatures.  This includes your mage.
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster

Werekingdom

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2016, 07:43:24 PM »
Thanks, that make a lot more sense.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest
Kill with Tanglevine

Sailor Vulcan

  • Secret Identity: Imaginator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3130
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 07:48:28 PM »
The problem I see is that Holy Avenger gains the melee bonus when another holy creature OR conjuration is attack. So if you rush forward and cast a creature + HA, then the opponent could just atk the mage, HA or non-holy conjuration thus depriving you of the melee bonus altogether.

It seems to me that oftentimes with "situational" abilities, the situations they're used for are the situations they're actually needed for. Priest's holy avenger is meant to punish enemies for attacking him or his stuff. Think like Eye for an Eye. Ha is a pretty decent ability for the same reason that eye for an eye is a good card. Because the priest's burst Healing means he and his stuff can take a beating and then strike back even harder. The priest is a very reactionary style of Mage. For a while recently I thought he wasn't viable at all. Then I realized that I forgot to put in a forge or a Cassiel in my deck.
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

Kelanen

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2016, 04:11:53 AM »
Ha is a pretty decent ability for the same reason that eye for an eye is a good card.

I agree they are similar - both are mediocre. Not terrible, but not good at all.

Alex

  • Playtester
  • Full Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2016, 03:45:12 AM »
I like the Holy Avenger.
from my perspective flying creatures like the Grey Angel or the Griffin fits best to the Holy Avenger trait.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 04:42:01 AM by Alex »

Kelanen

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2016, 04:28:33 AM »
I like the Holy Avenger.
from my perspective flying creatures like the Grey Angel or the Griffon fits best to the Holy Avenger trait.

Avenger has got much better since Griffin was introduced it's true. I am accounting for that though.

Beldin

  • The Craziest
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 741
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 04:53:17 AM »
The priest is a tier 2 deck. It has a single build that if you deviate from, you might as well be playing the Priestess. She does the heal end game better, has a built in mana crystal, and is more flexible.

RomeoXero

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: Let's talk Holy Avenger
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2016, 12:19:35 AM »
You got a lot of hard opinions on things don't you dude. I personally am of the opinion that one should keep trying new things, experiment, attempt the bizarre, or at least leave the beaten path a bit and try for something more fun.  That's what this game is about. It's about having fun! I don't know that ive ever had more fun while playing this game than i had against mystery. I played a priestess with malacoda and it was a hilarious play. I lost but i had fun.
Any mage can do whatever they like with whatever tools they want. Period. You are wrong. 
Now about them holy avengers eh?
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
I love this game. Its awesome!