September 27, 2022, 07:26:47 PM

Author Topic: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect  (Read 12850 times)

DaveW

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2015, 06:09:19 PM »
Quote from: DaveW
Would you please help me see where this is a "fact" in the rules (or codex)? I don't get it.

Certainly. The Codex entry for Slow states: "If this creature takes a move action, it's Action Phase immediately ends."

So...? It hasn't taken a move action since it has gained the Slow trait.

"Takes" is present tense, so both the trait has to be present and the move action has to be announced at the same time. That's the way I read it, anyway. If it said "If this creature has taken" then I would agree with you.
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Zuberi

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2015, 09:29:41 PM »
Your interpretation is not without merit, but lets look at the consequences of it:

1. Gaining the Slow trait after making a move action would not have any impact on the current Action Phase at all then. You would still be able to make a quick action, including a second move, because none of it is written with regards to the initial move being in the past tense.

2. This logic would also prevent Charge +X from working if it is applied mid Action Phase. There may be other traits that also become ineffectual unless revealed much earlier than currently possible, but I haven't scoured the rulebook for them.

From discussions with Arcane Wonders and reading the Rules as well as the Rules and Codex Supplement, I assure you that this is not how they are meant to be interpreted. Both of these effects care about whether or not the creature takes a move action this action phase, not whether they take one after the trait is applied, when determining whether or not they have an effect. Perhaps they could be better written to convey that, but that is what is meant.

Borg

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2015, 02:01:24 AM »
Is there any final official ruling in the pipeline ?
I think we've come to a consensus but it would be nice to see it confirmed.
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ringkichard

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2015, 06:23:25 AM »
Patience. :)
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Laddinfance

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2015, 09:11:17 AM »
I haven't had a chance to make any sort of ruling right now. But I haven't forgotten about this. I'm working towards it right now, and I'll have something as soon as I can. However, as usual my plate is pretty full. No worries though.

DaveW

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2015, 08:45:42 PM »
Your interpretation is not without merit, but lets look at the consequences of it:

1. Gaining the Slow trait after making a move action would not have any impact on the current Action Phase at all then. You would still be able to make a quick action, including a second move, because none of it is written with regards to the initial move being in the past tense.

2. This logic would also prevent Charge +X from working if it is applied mid Action Phase. There may be other traits that also become ineffectual unless revealed much earlier than currently possible, but I haven't scoured the rulebook for them.

This is not what I am saying at all. You certainly would not be able to make any sort of quick action after gaining the Slow trait since you already have moved. The only difference is that, if you lose the Slow trait (for example, by revealing a Cheetah Speed on the Creature) after becoming Slow and before seeking to do anything else, then I am suggesting that you certainly may be able to take a quick action of any legal sort for the Creature. It isn't Slow, after all.

It does not prevent Charge at all as the creature moved. If it loses the Slow condition, it will be able to use the Charge dice in any attack that it makes on the same activation.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 08:51:29 PM by DaveW »
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Borg

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2016, 11:33:21 AM »
I haven't had a chance to make any sort of ruling right now. But I haven't forgotten about this. I'm working towards it right now, and I'll have something as soon as I can. However, as usual my plate is pretty full. No worries though.

Half a year later, and ... ?
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Laddinfance

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Re: Lion Savagery timing question and Slow effect
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2016, 01:02:55 PM »
When you have a window to reveal enchantments, such as at the end of a movement action, both players are allowed to reveal enchantments. So, a creature who has just moved would end its action if an Enfeeble was revealed on them. However, the opponent gets a chance to reveal enchantments as well. Once we go past this window then that creature's would immediately end it's action.

So, end result, yes you can reveal Cheetah Speed to counter Enfeeble. But you must do so in that single window at the end of Movement Action.