September 24, 2021, 04:27:37 PM

Author Topic: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers  (Read 321015 times)

Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #345 on: July 15, 2016, 08:58:10 AM »
The Priest has the advantage of an opponent not really being able to start gaming his opponent by his mage card.  Paladin certainly has cool tricks, but you have to play into them to maximize them.  Which means predictability, a player can start to guess what youre going to do and try to "deny valor" making it more of a risk/reward sort of thing.  Priest on the other hand isnt reliant on a narrower secondary mechanic or minigame.  By its very nature, Valor is telegraphed, the opponent will know how you generate it and know how much you have at any given time, and what spells you might be using it on and probably even WHEN you will in some cases.  Which means the Paladin can have his own tricks stiffled or be forced into tough decisions by his opponent. 

When an opponent sees hes playing a Paladin, he can already start accounting for Valor in his own strategy, when the opponent sees hes playing a Priest he cant assume as much.  (much how the Forcemasters biggest weakness is simply that she is a Forcemaster and can anticipate much of her spellbook and gameplan already.)

I'd agree with this in general, but this has always been one of the Priest's problems.  In other words, the "drawback" of the Paladin being somewhat predictable in what he aspires to do also applies to the Priest.  His Burn token trick depends on Light attacks, so you know he's probably packing Staff of Asyra and Dawnbreaker's Ring (each in multiples?) ... so you save your Equipment removal spells for those and you really hose 1 of his 2 tricks.  His other trick involves his Holy Avenger, which is honestly tough to pull off if you've played Priest: you need other friendly creatures to Guard or otherwise draw attacks in order to activate your Avenger.  All your opponent has to do is choose not to cooperate and the Avenger is mostly nullified.  So, honestly, the Priest doesn't have much more flexibility than the Paladin, and often feels like a mage with no special ability... besides getting to add a Burn token when he casts a (generally pretty weak) Light attack spell - and new attack spells in the PvS expansion will surely benefit the Priest in that regard (e.g. Luminous Blast).

There are a couple of creatures who've yet to be spoiled that do work for a Priest very well. We'll just have to wait and see Noble Vanguard and Crusader Griffin.

Ophidimancer

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #346 on: July 15, 2016, 11:23:18 AM »
Seems Im blabbing again  ::)

Yep, just chiming in.  ;D

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #347 on: July 15, 2016, 12:32:05 PM »
The Priest has the advantage of an opponent not really being able to start gaming his opponent by his mage card.  Paladin certainly has cool tricks, but you have to play into them to maximize them.  Which means predictability, a player can start to guess what youre going to do and try to "deny valor" making it more of a risk/reward sort of thing.  Priest on the other hand isnt reliant on a narrower secondary mechanic or minigame.  By its very nature, Valor is telegraphed, the opponent will know how you generate it and know how much you have at any given time, and what spells you might be using it on and probably even WHEN you will in some cases.  Which means the Paladin can have his own tricks stiffled or be forced into tough decisions by his opponent. 

When an opponent sees hes playing a Paladin, he can already start accounting for Valor in his own strategy, when the opponent sees hes playing a Priest he cant assume as much.  (much how the Forcemasters biggest weakness is simply that she is a Forcemaster and can anticipate much of her spellbook and gameplan already.)

I'd agree with this in general, but this has always been one of the Priest's problems.  In other words, the "drawback" of the Paladin being somewhat predictable in what he aspires to do also applies to the Priest.  His Burn token trick depends on Light attacks, so you know he's probably packing Staff of Asyra and Dawnbreaker's Ring (each in multiples?) ... so you save your Equipment removal spells for those and you really hose 1 of his 2 tricks.  His other trick involves his Holy Avenger, which is honestly tough to pull off if you've played Priest: you need other friendly creatures to Guard or otherwise draw attacks in order to activate your Avenger.  All your opponent has to do is choose not to cooperate and the Avenger is mostly nullified.  So, honestly, the Priest doesn't have much more flexibility than the Paladin, and often feels like a mage with no special ability... besides getting to add a Burn token when he casts a (generally pretty weak) Light attack spell - and new attack spells in the PvS expansion will surely benefit the Priest in that regard (e.g. Luminous Blast).

There are a couple of creatures who've yet to be spoiled that do work for a Priest very well. We'll just have to wait and see Noble Vanguard and Crusader Griffin.

OMG, my mouth is watering over those names!
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baronzaltor

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #348 on: July 15, 2016, 12:44:17 PM »
Also, Jinx hoses Smite pretty hard.  Jinx will fizzle the casting, but it only says it refunds the mana spent not other costs.. so a Jinxed Smite doesnt get the 4 Valor refunded.

The Valor isn't really part of the cost of Smite, though. It's part of the effect (eg card text) which is dependent on resolution  - sort of like how the mana cost of Purify is 0 not X, since the spending of mana happens as part of resolving Purify.

*edit* Unless I'm mistaken, and a rules supplement states that spells with subtype Valor may have a cost that includes both mama and Valor, where the amount of Valor required is stated in the card text, rather than the cost bar at the top of the spell card.
The text says  "As an additional cost to cast smite you must 4 Valor" so Id take that as being part of cost to cast it.

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #349 on: July 15, 2016, 12:52:10 PM »
There are a couple of creatures who've yet to be spoiled that do work for a Priest very well. We'll just have to wait and see Noble Vanguard and Crusader Griffin.

OMG, my mouth is watering over those names!

Ditto.  I really hope griffins have a common trait of denying Elusive, since Elusive is a trait that doesn't really have a counter right now (aside from Vine markers, but that's still limited to hindering).  That may not sound like a big deal to Arena players, but it's important in Domination, where Elusive (and Fast and Flying) are probably the most powerful traits in the game. I'm already "illegally" using a Victorian Griffin as a potential Holy Avenger in my Priest Domination book, but he's a tad expensive and can be countered by [mwcard=MWBG1J02]Gravikor[/mwcard], among other things (e.g. [mwcard=MW1E25]Maim Wings[/mwcard], [mwcard=MW1I15]Knockdown[/mwcard] + [mwcard=MW1J22]Tanglevine[/mwcard], etc).

« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 02:13:15 PM by iNano78 »
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Halewijn

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #350 on: July 16, 2016, 09:14:19 AM »
The other benefit of the Priest is in future development. Right now he seems very similar to the Paladin, because there are few high level spells, that aren't creatures. This area is something we want to explore more in the future. It will help make them feel different over time.
Looking forward to that! It is indeed true that academy and sirenVpaladin will boost the priest a lot too. :)


On a less serious note, the shape of the sword of randiance seems to represent a two handed sword with the handle being made for two hands. On the artwork of smite, you can see the paladin use both hands.

I'd also argue that the Siren's trident would require two hands.  ::)
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #351 on: July 16, 2016, 09:30:02 AM »
The other benefit of the Priest is in future development. Right now he seems very similar to the Paladin, because there are few high level spells, that aren't creatures. This area is something we want to explore more in the future. It will help make them feel different over time.
Looking forward to that! It is indeed true that academy and sirenVpaladin will boost the priest a lot too. :)


On a less serious note, the shape of the sword of randiance seems to represent a two handed sword with the handle being made for two hands. On the artwork of smite, you can see the paladin use both hands.

I'd also argue that the Siren's trident would require two hands.  ::)

sshhhhh it's magic  :P
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Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #352 on: July 18, 2016, 09:14:26 AM »
I was reviewing the PVS Rulebook today and noticed that I put the incorrect Valor cost in the article about the Paladin's ability card. I've fixed it. It's pretty crazy when a font's 3 looks like it's 8.

Tyrnan

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #353 on: July 18, 2016, 09:41:49 AM »
So both Aura's where three is stated as valor cost, cost eight valor?
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Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #354 on: July 18, 2016, 09:54:24 AM »
No, I edited it. It WAS 8, but it should have been 3. So, now it is 3.

Bluebaron

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #355 on: July 18, 2016, 10:04:09 AM »
That cost sounds more reasonable. Thanks for the update.

Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #356 on: July 18, 2016, 10:42:34 AM »
The Paladin has friends in high places...

>>HERE<<

Ophidimancer

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #357 on: July 18, 2016, 10:45:14 AM »
Griffin! <3

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #358 on: July 18, 2016, 11:21:23 AM »
And Crusade Griffin is one reason why I'm not worried about the Priest being competitive when the Paladin hits the field.
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #359 on: July 18, 2016, 11:23:44 AM »
Yeah that thing has Holy Avenger written all over it.
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