January 27, 2021, 03:35:34 am

Author Topic: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers  (Read 305490 times)

Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #450 on: July 29, 2016, 03:02:01 pm »
It's just the first printing. However, every copy that we have right now is the first printing.

Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #451 on: July 29, 2016, 03:28:09 pm »
I assume kracken is today?
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Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #452 on: July 29, 2016, 03:55:18 pm »
yes, here in a little bit.

Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #453 on: July 29, 2016, 05:01:58 pm »
The Kraken is out today. Enjoy.

silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #454 on: July 29, 2016, 07:12:44 pm »
The Kraken is out today. Enjoy.

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EricTheGreat12

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #455 on: July 29, 2016, 08:18:44 pm »
The Kraken is out today. Enjoy.

Love the Kraken; very well created!

Unfortunately was not as powerfull as I hoped, and was really hoping for bigger traits to help out the fact that it's very slow. Also disappointed that the Sherrean Leviathan is way more powerfull than a card that was so hyped up until now, and doesn't feel to me as if the Kraken is on equal footing to its counterpart.

Anyways, still very excited by the fact that the Siren will have loads of powerfull creatures to experiment with.

Reddicediaries

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #456 on: July 29, 2016, 09:01:09 pm »
The kracken still is a boss, and is going to dominate under the right cercumstances.
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Zuberi

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #457 on: July 29, 2016, 09:59:47 pm »
The Leviathan is definitely harder to kill, with 1 more Armor, 5 more Life, Tough -3, and Hydro -3. It also has the spiffy Unstoppable trait, but I don't think that makes a huge difference on slow creatures. It actually makes it harder for it's controlling mage to put it in position because you also can't use pushes on it. Teleports are a must.

So what does the Kraken have in it's favor? Easy. Tentacle Grasp. Don't underestimate a ranged attack on a slow creature that can pull targets back into the zone when they attempt to escape. Much easier than chasing them around. And then the new grapple mechanic will keep them there. The Kraken is a lot easier to maneuver around and harder to get away from than the Leviathan and thus will be able to do damage much more consistently. If your opponent comes within one zone, you can grab them without using any other spells. Your opponent can probably just kite the Leviathan without too much trouble, but will have much more problems doing so against the Kraken.

Their main attacks are comparable. 7 Dice with Pierce +2 and 6 Dice with Pierce +3 ain't a big difference in my opinion. You might get on the fact that the Leviathan's is a Quick Action and can be used with guard, but again the Kraken can grapple a creature. Then that creature CAN'T attack anyone other than the Kraken, not even with sweeping attacks, and the creature suffers a -2 penalty to attacks made against the Kraken. The grapple also can't be "broken" by a tiny creature to let a big critter through. You choose the target and can make sure the biggest threat is neutralized. That's a much better guard in my opinion. And the quick action doesn't really matter when moving because they're both slow. Although, if you do give them Fast to counteract the slow, a Quick Action Ranged attack on the Kraken is still more desirable to me as that gives him AMAZING access to the board. Anything within two zones can be in his grasp, and elusive kiters really can't get away then.

So, you trade a bit of survivability, for much better control and more consistent damage.

Kharhaz

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #458 on: July 30, 2016, 12:35:01 am »
The Leviathan is definitely harder to kill, with 1 more Armor, 5 more Life, Tough -3, and Hydro -3. It also has the spiffy Unstoppable trait, but I don't think that makes a huge difference on slow creatures. It actually makes it harder for it's controlling mage to put it in position because you also can't use pushes on it. Teleports are a must.

So what does the Kraken have in it's favor? Easy. Tentacle Grasp. Don't underestimate a ranged attack on a slow creature that can pull targets back into the zone when they attempt to escape. Much easier than chasing them around. And then the new grapple mechanic will keep them there. The Kraken is a lot easier to maneuver around and harder to get away from than the Leviathan and thus will be able to do damage much more consistently. If your opponent comes within one zone, you can grab them without using any other spells. Your opponent can probably just kite the Leviathan without too much trouble, but will have much more problems doing so against the Kraken.

Their main attacks are comparable. 7 Dice with Pierce +2 and 6 Dice with Pierce +3 ain't a big difference in my opinion. You might get on the fact that the Leviathan's is a Quick Action and can be used with guard, but again the Kraken can grapple a creature. Then that creature CAN'T attack anyone other than the Kraken, not even with sweeping attacks, and the creature suffers a -2 penalty to attacks made against the Kraken. The grapple also can't be "broken" by a tiny creature to let a big critter through. You choose the target and can make sure the biggest threat is neutralized. That's a much better guard in my opinion. And the quick action doesn't really matter when moving because they're both slow. Although, if you do give them Fast to counteract the slow, a Quick Action Ranged attack on the Kraken is still more desirable to me as that gives him AMAZING access to the board. Anything within two zones can be in his grasp, and elusive kiters really can't get away then.

So, you trade a bit of survivability, for much better control and more consistent damage.

More importantly, the Kraken can fly with [mwcard=MW1E13]Eagle Wings[/mwcard].

I know what you're saying, "The Leviathan can too!" Ya well a flying fish is nothing compared to a flying octopus snatching your creature over wall of thorns, or whatever wall you have, and then holding your pitiful creatures while they cry and soil themselves because it just got real! ;D


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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #459 on: July 30, 2016, 10:06:40 am »
Grapple is really going to shake up Domination.  It's kind of like having creatures with built-in Tanglevines.  And Kraken is like a Vine Snatcher with a built-in Tanglevine (not to mention a 6-dice +3 piercing attack against creatures in his zone).  Kraken is going to be a frightening counter to Fast/Elusive ... e.g. Cervere's worst nightmare!

Snatching your creature through a Bloodspine Wall and dragging it into a Shallow Sea to unleash a full attack with Aquatic bonuses... Scary stuff!!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 10:10:25 am by iNano78 »
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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #460 on: July 30, 2016, 10:40:10 am »
Not to mention what can be waiting on the other side. Bloodspine Walls create Bleed and Bleed tokens attract Sharks....
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baronzaltor

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #461 on: July 30, 2016, 12:46:55 pm »
When sitting in a Shallow Sea those base attacks are 1 die higher and hitting them back is 1 die less also.


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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #462 on: July 30, 2016, 01:45:29 pm »
When sitting in a Shallow Sea those base attacks are 1 die higher and hitting them back is 1 die less also.

This is the most deceptive thing for people new to Siren. It gives you a pretty amazing advantage with Grapple.
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #463 on: July 30, 2016, 02:35:44 pm »
After seeing Leviathan and Kraken I'm glad that the Wizard was changed the way he was. He would laugh in the Siren's face otherwise and her player would consider not casting aquatic terrain at all.

Nice move for the Siren would be Summoning Circle in the zone with enemy Spawnpoint and summoning Leviathan there as last thing in turn followed by Shallow Sea next QC phase.
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #464 on: July 30, 2016, 05:49:10 pm »
Unfortunately was not as powerfull as I hoped, and was really hoping for bigger traits to help out the fact that it's very slow. Also disappointed that the Sherrean Leviathan is way more powerfull than a card that was so hyped up until now, and doesn't feel to me as if the Kraken is on equal footing to its counterpart.
Agreed.  For being teased so much, I was expecting something a little more... unique, I guess.  Don't get me wrong, I like the new grapple mechanic, but the Kraken doesn't seem all that much better than the (non-legendary) Drokarr except for some added health. 

The excerpt "A creature can be the grappler in several Grapple conditions (it can hold onto multiple preys), as long as it has a separate attack with the Grapple trait for each prey it is holding." from the new grapple rules seems like something that would be perfect for the legendary Kraken, but unless I'm reading it wrong the Kraken can still only hold onto a single target at a time, despite being an octopus and having 8 massive legs.  (I'm not suggesting allowing for 8 grapples, but 2-4 would be a nice way to set it apart.) 

There's actually another thing that bothers me about the Kraken.  It itself is not in any way immune to being grappled by other creatures, which is kind of silly.  Can you imagine a semi-regular dude just hugging a Kraken and being like "Guys, don't worry, I got this"?  Surely it thematically deserves the Uncontainable trait?

Personally, I can't see very many situations in which I would rather use the Kraken over the Leviathan.  They both cost almost the same amount of mana and spellpoints, but the Leviathan is noticeably harder to kill (and soften up with conditions) and can disable more creatures at a time.  The only time the Kraken really shines is against a solo or large buddy mage (although both creatures are arguably roughly as good against buddy builds).