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Author Topic: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers  (Read 305492 times)

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #465 on: July 30, 2016, 06:09:29 pm »
I don't know it looks like the leviathan and the Kraken would combo well together...


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Ganpot

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #466 on: July 30, 2016, 06:37:51 pm »
I don't know it looks like the leviathan and the Kraken would combo well together...
Maybe, but then we're talking 43 mana invested purely in 2 creatures (more if you want to buff them).  That's not a particularly fast or unpredictable strategy, so your opponent should be able to think up some way to deal with it.  A well-timed [mwcard=MW1I01]Banish[/mwcard] or [mwcard=MW1I26]Sleep[/mwcard] would almost definitely cost you the game. 

Zuberi

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #467 on: July 30, 2016, 07:29:26 pm »
Quote from: Ganpot
the Leviathan is noticeably harder to kill (and soften up with conditions) and can disable more creatures at a time.

I tend to dislike conversations about "well, if you do that, I can do this" because I do think there's an answer to everything in Mage Wars and these discussions are without point or end. However, I do think it may be useful to compare the Leviathan's restrain ability to the new Grapple mechanic, and some possible answers to both of them.

A big pro in the Leviathan's favor is that it's ability does affect multiple creatures whereas the Kraken's grapple only affects one creature. However, I wouldn't call these creatures "disabled" by the Leviathan's ability. They are merely Restrained. The creature grappled by the Kraken, however, becomes Restrained, Unmovable, can't attack other creatures besides the Kraken with non-spell attacks, can't use ranged non-spell attacks at all, and suffers a -2 penalty to it's melee attacks. A much greater disability.

Both of these effects can be countered with a teleport or banish. The Kraken's Grapple is also broken if the Kraken becomes incapacitated, and the prey gets a chance to escape after each of its actions (though the Kraken is likely to reestablish the Grapple afterwards). Meanwhile, the Leviathan's ability can be countered with Push effects. Not on the Leviathan of course, as he is Unstoppable, but on the victims. Restrained does not make them Unmovable. You can also completely eliminate the ability by replacing the terrain with one of your own.

Some interesting things about the Leviathan's ability. It still works if he's incapacitated, so a sleeping Leviathan will continue to restrain creatures. It also works against fliers, grabbing them right out of the sky and dragging them down into the depths. The Kraken can of course also grab fliers, but the passive nature of the Leviathan's ability means that no fliers will be traveling through his zone, as long as it has an Aquatic Terrain attached. Grapple can of course work on Mages though while the Leviathan's ability can not, and usually it's the enemy Mage that I'm really wanting to stop moving.

They are both very cool creatures imo. The Leviathan would definitely rock against a Spawnpoint if you can get him in the same zone and get some Aquatic terrain into that zone. Meanwhile the Kraken is a lot less dependent on proper positioning. They're both awesome.

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #468 on: July 30, 2016, 07:30:32 pm »
Unfortunately was not as powerfull as I hoped, and was really hoping for bigger traits to help out the fact that it's very slow. Also disappointed that the Sherrean Leviathan is way more powerfull than a card that was so hyped up until now, and doesn't feel to me as if the Kraken is on equal footing to its counterpart.
Agreed.  For being teased so much, I was expecting something a little more... unique, I guess.  Don't get me wrong, I like the new grapple mechanic, but the Kraken doesn't seem all that much better than the (non-legendary) Drokarr except for some added health. 

There's actually another thing that bothers me about the Kraken.  It itself is not in any way immune to being grappled by other creatures, which is kind of silly.  Can you imagine a semi-regular dude just hugging a Kraken and being like "Guys, don't worry, I got this"?  Surely it thematically deserves the Uncontainable trait?

Personally, I can't see very many situations in which I would rather use the Kraken over the Leviathan.  They both cost almost the same amount of mana and spellpoints, but the Leviathan is noticeably harder to kill (and soften up with conditions) and can disable more creatures at a time.  The only time the Kraken really shines is against a solo or large buddy mage (although both creatures are arguably roughly as good against buddy builds).

Agreed; while the Kraken is a cool creature, it none the less feels as if it's toned down, perhaps a little too much. While it realistically doesn't make sense, I think that this Kraken is not the same as the one in Pirates in the Caribbean, and it is therefore not too heavy to grapple in itself. {Think about it, it doesn't make sense, but Sosruko could kill your mage if he wanted to}

Good point; I would use the Kraken to drag the opponent mage and then attack them, but the Leviathan is just simply better for prolonged melee fighting.

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #469 on: August 01, 2016, 01:52:24 pm »
Just a reminder that a water trained wizard can also toy around with a lot of the new Siren stuff.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #470 on: August 01, 2016, 01:57:46 pm »
Just a reminder that a water trained wizard can also toy around with a lot of the new Siren stuff.

Arcane Wonders posted an update to the Wizard and the Wizard's Tower. You can find it >>HERE<<. So now, you cannot have a water Wizard, there is just the Wizard.

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #471 on: August 01, 2016, 02:00:17 pm »
Very soon the water wizard will be back! She is called the siren.

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #472 on: August 01, 2016, 04:51:07 pm »
Anyone think we might get some mana anemones /edit (Mananemones)/ or something like that for the siren? What would its perk be? The mana flower has regenerate and the mana crystal has some toughness to it, maybe the anemone would have some interaction where it would grant channeling +2 but only be able to exist where aquatic terrain was present...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 04:54:00 pm by Head over feels »
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #473 on: August 01, 2016, 07:57:05 pm »
Anyone think we might get some mana anemones /edit (Mananemones)/ or something like that for the siren? What would its perk be? The mana flower has regenerate and the mana crystal has some toughness to it, maybe the anemone would have some interaction where it would grant channeling +2 but only be able to exist where aquatic terrain was present...

Sea anemones trap small fish and eat them, don't they? Maybe it could be like a sacrificial altar, but instead of gaining a melee and piercing bonus, it gets you mana.
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #474 on: August 05, 2016, 01:45:26 am »
The set must be out now? Where is the compleate card pool spoiler?  ::)

Biblofilter

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #475 on: August 05, 2016, 05:12:51 am »
I can confirm that the set is out.

I even got hammered yesterday vs Coshades Priest with my Siren.

Love Siren and all the mechanics around her - will have to work with her a bit.

Im probably going to hate Paladin and all other holy mages for a while.

Pictures well I guess people are busy gaming atm?

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Halewijn

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #476 on: August 05, 2016, 05:16:13 am »
What kind of hate? The competitive-fun kinda hate or really having some issues with some of the new cards?
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #477 on: August 05, 2016, 06:41:37 am »
Biblofilter is referring to the fun competitive hate lol. I know for certain he's  no issue running holy.
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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #478 on: August 05, 2016, 12:44:34 pm »
I just got to play a real cardboard game with my buddy to finally test out some of the new cards from priestess Academy. White cloak knight is my new favorite holy avenger by FAR! I simply cannot wait to fill this book out more when i get PvS!
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EricTheGreat12

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Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
« Reply #479 on: August 05, 2016, 01:23:14 pm »
Love Siren and all the mechanics around her - will have to work with her a bit.

Im probably going to hate Paladin and all other holy mages for a while.

Pictures well I guess people are busy gaming atm?

Yes, next week will probably be the week of the spoilers  ;D

Glad to hear that the Siren has great mechanics all well as a certain challenge to her playstyle. She will for sure be the next mage I play, and she might actually be fun against the Warlord and Beastmaster.

One thing I gotta ask though: did you use Naiya, the Siren's familiar? I remember seeing the spoiler and noticing that she was a bit weak, but her powers overcame that weakness; would like to know how you played her.