January 27, 2021, 05:10:49 am

Author Topic: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata  (Read 65418 times)

rant

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2016, 08:57:42 am »
Agree!

Since this is the first major errata I've experienced since starting this game I have to ask, will AW publish updated cards for sale so those of us with OCD can have accurate cards reflecting these changes?

The next time either the Core Set or Conquest of Kumanjaro is reprinted that set will reflect these changes. As for single replacement cards, right now for us to print a single card is infeasible. That said, I'm working on the card files themselves so that we can have them posted on the website here, so you can print out your own updated version. I was actually speaking to another AW employee yesterday about the possibility of printing single cards for something like this. But at the moment no we do not have anything like that.

Couldn't the errata be added to future sets as well?  It'd be a shame to have to buy another expansion or core for mage cards. 
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Laddinfance

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2016, 09:02:08 am »
Agree!

Since this is the first major errata I've experienced since starting this game I have to ask, will AW publish updated cards for sale so those of us with OCD can have accurate cards reflecting these changes?

The next time either the Core Set or Conquest of Kumanjaro is reprinted that set will reflect these changes. As for single replacement cards, right now for us to print a single card is infeasible. That said, I'm working on the card files themselves so that we can have them posted on the website here, so you can print out your own updated version. I was actually speaking to another AW employee yesterday about the possibility of printing single cards for something like this. But at the moment no we do not have anything like that.

It's basically the same as for anybody with 1st printing copies of Temple of Light, Battle Fury, Hand of Bim-Shalla, Malacoda, or any of the other cards that have had major or minor errata.  You can still use your old cards, but refer to the most current text and Rules Supplement.

Speaking of which, hey Laddinfance, how soon should we expect an update to the Codex and Rules Supplement documents?  ;)
(No rest for the wicked, right?)

No rest at all. I've actually been working on the supplement. I'm hoping to have something out in the next week or so, but it's tough to say. There shouldn't be anything really new in it, it's just going to be collecting everything together.

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2016, 09:09:04 am »
Agree!

Since this is the first major errata I've experienced since starting this game I have to ask, will AW publish updated cards for sale so those of us with OCD can have accurate cards reflecting these changes?

The next time either the Core Set or Conquest of Kumanjaro is reprinted that set will reflect these changes. As for single replacement cards, right now for us to print a single card is infeasible. That said, I'm working on the card files themselves so that we can have them posted on the website here, so you can print out your own updated version. I was actually speaking to another AW employee yesterday about the possibility of printing single cards for something like this. But at the moment no we do not have anything like that.

Couldn't the errata be added to future sets as well?  It'd be a shame to have to buy another expansion or core for mage cards.

Problem is that nobody is going to like having to pay extra money to compensate for a faulty product. I think they should give them out at events and such like promo cards. And give them to ambassadors to hand out to people as participation prizes after demos and local organized play events and such.
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exid

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2016, 09:52:51 am »
I discover this thread today!

good decision for the wisard and the tower.

i'm looking forward to have all that in the new supplement (it's our "official rules").

thanks!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 11:10:42 am by Exid »

iNano78

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2016, 10:52:26 am »
I just reread this thread to see how big an impact the errata has on a particularly toolbox-y spell book.  It spent 0 points on Air school and featured 8-10 levels-worth of each of the other 3 elemental schools (hence was a "Water" Wizard but could almost equally have been Fire or Earth with very minor changes).  In order to regain legality, this book would probably swap the Invisible Fist and some of the Earth and Fire attack spells for Air attacks to bring the sbp price down, which mostly means weaker (fewer red dice) finishers in exchange for more Ethereal attack spells that can deal Daze/Stun (hence Invisible Fist becoming unnecessary).  It might also drop a Dissolve and an Acid Ball (?) to shed a few points.

But perhaps more importantly, Wizard's Tower takes a turn longer to activate, and every spell it casts is a tougher choice as it means losing access to that spell in future rounds (e.g. a potential opportunity cost that didn't exist before).  Previously, an opposing mage couldn't ignore the Wizard's Tower.  Now, well, it activates one fewer times and will eventually run out of Surging Waves/Acid Balls/Hurl Rocks/whatever else its throwing at you and your minions.  So you might still choose to take it out, but you could at least consider ignoring it because it burns sbp's (in addition to mana) as fuel.  The toolbox now comes with a more significant cost.

Attacks

I have built a toolbox of spells to sit on my wizard's tower. I also hard cast these spells through hawkeye.

Surging Wave - I use this mainly for equipment rush decks, and warlords, that rely Battle Forge. Battle forge has Hydro +3 so I use this against my opponent and hit his forge with 12 dice in a single turn. I also use this as a slam generation part of my wizard tower toolbox to deal with guards.

Flameblast - Defenses are a problem for this deck as it effectively switches off the "hit it with a rock, if it doesn't work; use a bigger rock" mentality of this book. Remove the guarding creature with a defence with these if I can

Hurl Rock/Fireball/Hurl Boulder - Main Offensive spells.

Invisible Fist - Etheral spike Damage for when arcane zap on its own isn't enough.
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exid

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2016, 11:13:41 am »
I don't know the exact number of cards I have that are not errated versions, but I would surely buy a set that would contain all the new versions for all errated cards.

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2016, 11:17:46 am »
Wow.  Things just got real.  Those are some absolutely massive changes.  People have been debating if and/or how to nerf the Wizard for awhile, so it's nice to see Arcane Wonders finally weighing in.  These aren't even close to the changes I personally would have made, but I'm absolutely sure the staff have playtested these ideas VERY carefully, so I'm excited to see how it goes. 

In hindsight, the change to an air-only Wizard was strongly hinted at based on the similar nature of the Academy Wizard.  I'm still not sure what I think about this change.  It definitely limits his card pool availablity (which had contributed to keeping him a top-tier pick throughout Mage Wars' entire existence).  On the other hand, the Wizard's ability to choose a limited specialization is what most set him apart from other mages, and I'm a bit sad to see that ability disappear entirely.  Plus, there's no real thematic reason for a Wizard to be associated with air over any other element.  Presumably air was picked because every other element already has an associated mage (earth has Warlord, fire has Warlock, and soon water will have Siren). 

I'm surprised the developers didn't go the obvious and simple route of making the Wizard's Tower epic, but I kind of like what they did with it.  The Wizard in the core set (before he starting mutating by "stealing" other schools' cards and abusing the toolbox nature of the tower) was usually geared towards delaying his opponent's ideal actions so that the Wizard had a short-term advantage until he either won the fight or ran out of tricks.  The new Wizard's Tower looks like it will help with that playstyle.  It provides potential extra firepower and board control every turn, but at the cost of burning through the Wizard's stockpile of attack spells.  Now the Wizard actually has to choose between conservation (an Elemental Wand) and action efficiency (the Wizard's Tower). 

Regardless of how things turn out eventually, these two changes pretty much force every existing Wizard player to radically alter his/her spellbook (since most of them are now illegal).  The next Gen Con tournament is going to be very interesting.

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2016, 11:52:26 am »
Hey there,

Just wanted to give a big shout out to Aaron for leading the charge on making Mage Wars a better game. One of the big reasons I'm such a huge fan of Arcane Wonders is that they are willing to look at balance from sets long ago. As the cardpool grows it's possible for imbalance to arise over time. Mage Wars is a living card game, and as such new problems are always going to pop up. Rather then banning cards that we pay for or ignoring the community they try and really figure out a possible problem. With such a small staff it's amazing that they have the time and resources to really dive into what their fan base thinks about the game.

Since I've started playing Mage Wars back in 2013 I've read thread after thread about Wizard's being to OP or not being OP, and everyone had their opinion on how to "fix" the Wizard. It was pretty clear that something needed to be done, but not something to destroy the core concept of the Wizard. I think the changes made does not really nerf the wizard in any way make him unusable.

I know a lot of players looked at the toolbox Wizard as the way to play. If you're feeling lost on how to use the Wizard. I would highly encourage you to brush off the dust on that old Gate of Voltari and explore some of the insanely powerful Arcane Creatures that exist in the Wizard's realm.
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Gogolski

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2016, 11:57:38 am »
I haven't read all the posts in this thread yet, but just wanted to share my initial thoughts.

I never was one to call the Wizard op of not op. Not too much of a problem in my group as we all like building and trying out ideas...

I think a nerf was bound to happen and I'm Sure a lot of thought, time and testing has been put into these changes. That alone makes me very happy. Arcane Wonders has definately always strived to give us a wonderful product. One that is balanced and fun to play. If anyone on the development team says that these changes were needed to be able to give us more mages that were playable and competitie, I'm sure that these changes are sound.

Thank you very much!We

We might have three mages less, but all the others just got better! They don't have to build their book to be competitie with the Wizard and a some strategies that lost their value might once again be viable. This is a wonderful thing. It's time to reassert some spells, some features and ideas that have been put away because that one mage with way too many spellpoints could too easily counter too much... That alone has led to butchering the initial idea of some spellbooks because you had to trim it to be prepared for al the counters one mage (of four) might throw at it...

Not a huge deal, but some ideas and spells are once again more worth looking at.

It's time to revisit ideas and be creatieve!!

Woohoo!!!

We should all enjoy this!

Thank you very much Arcane Wonders!!

Beldin

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2016, 12:19:04 pm »
Am I the only one who actually likes these rulings? While I have played a wizard for a long time and have a favourite book, I have felt that a wizard is the only build that gets both water and arcane at base cost is a little OP. Not to mention Wizards tower as the most powerful "wand" in the game that only he can use. 10 Channeling to boot. etc etc.

This does not wreck the wizard; as the best tool for the job, at any SBP cost, is still the best tool. I will happily put Dissolve in Wizard at 2 SBP per copy and pos even run 3 copies and a Crumble. This makes the wizard more of a puzzle, but I get most enjoyment in the spellbook creation process. Playing the game only proves if I was right or wrong.

Wizards Tower as the new printing is still a viable card, not auto-include with a toolbox of cards like it was.

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2016, 12:26:02 pm »
Am I the only one who actually likes these rulings?
No!
Wizards Tower as the new printing is still a viable card, not auto-include.
Damn right!

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2016, 12:29:00 pm »
Am I the only one who actually likes these rulings?



That said, there is a (small) downside.  Fire Elemental, a longtime promo, is about to be released in the Lost Grimoire v1 set.  It and Magma Golem would have been reasonably strong options for a Fire Wizard, but don't work as well for a Warlock because demons have more synergy with both Warlocks' abilities.  So... it would be kind of sad if these non-demon Fire-school creatures never really see play because there's no longer a mage that wants to use them.

Perhaps we'll see an "Elementalist" mage in the future after all, maybe one who does get to choose its training from among the minor school and/or who is trained in "Elementals" and "Golems" (e.g. creatures and other spells with those subtypes)... but that isn't as strong as the Wizard was - e.g. NOT trained in Arcane, channeling of 9, more conditional mage abilities (e.g. no built-in ranged attack spell or not as strong of a damage reducer), less powerful (or no) spawn point/familiars, etc.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 12:36:35 pm by iNano78 »
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Coshade

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2016, 12:34:58 pm »
Am I the only one who actually likes these rulings?

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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2016, 01:08:56 pm »
I like these changes very much.
Thank you Laddinfance and AW.

The Wizard change is elegant, minimal and will very likely turn out to have the desired effect.

Removing Spellbind from the Tower is perfect as far as I'm concerned.
It will result in the tower no longer being a "must-add" to every wizard book, which is a good thing.
If you want to use the Tower effectively you'll have to build your book accordingly to fuel it - focusing on attack spells.

If you're going with a wizard book that is low on attack spells, the tower is no longer a "must-add" and can no longer be abused.
This will increase Wizard book variety, which again, is a good thing.

If they had kept the Spellbind Trait and turned the Tower into an Epic for example, the tower would still be a "must add" to every Wizard book, he would just carry an even bigger bullseye.

Big thumbs up from me  :)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 01:19:26 pm by Borg »
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Re: Wizard and Wizard's Tower Errata
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2016, 01:21:05 pm »
I like these changes very much.
Thank you Laddinfance and AW.

The Wizard change is elegant, minimal and will very likely turn out to have the desired effect.

Removing Spellbind from the Tower is perfect as far as I'm concerned.
It will result in the tower no longer being a "must-add" to every wizard book, which is a good thing.
If you want to use the Tower effectively you'll have to build your book accordingly to fuel it - focusing on attack spells.

If you're going with a wizard book that is low on attack spells, the tower is no longer a "must-add" and can no longer be abused.
This will increase Wizard book variety, which again, is a good thing.

If they had kept the Spellbind Trait and turned the Tower into an Epic for example, the tower would still be a "must add" to every Wizard book, he would just carry an even bigger bullseye.

Big thumbs up from me  :)

Totally agree with this assessment of the tower errata. And it's not that I dislike the errata on the wizard. It's that I'm not sure what to think of it yet.
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