January 27, 2021, 04:11:06 am

Author Topic: Gate to Hell- yes or no?  (Read 7048 times)

iNano78

  • Ambassador
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • Playing at the Royal Canadian Legion in Ottawa
    • View Profile
    • Ottawa/Gatineau Mage Wars (FB group)
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 06:02:10 am »
No because that detracts from time spent on testing new cards.

Yep, that's the main issue. Errata is used sparingly in situations where the game might otherwise become broken (e.g. meta becomes stale because everybody knows Wizard is best; everybody packs 4-6x Hand of Bim-Shala because if you don't you're doing it wrong; etc). But errata to boost "bad" cards is exceedingly rare unless there's a really easy fix (like Malacoda, or Goblin Builder, or Garrison Post).

That said... here's a new card idea:

Gate to Infernia

Same text as Gate to Hell, but costs 8 mana, is level 4, and is a quick-cast.  ::)
*edit* To prevent it from being opened on the turn it's cast, perhaps give it something analogous to Dissipate markers, where when the last Dissipate gets removed, the Gate opens and attack is made and it becomes a Demon Garrison Post. Kind of a "count-down to doomsday." Like Altar of Domination/Talos, but for an Arena-wide attack and "all Infernia breaks loose" kind of feel.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 06:06:36 am by iNano78 »
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster

Ravepig

  • Ambassador
  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 09:38:11 am »
No because that detracts from time spent on testing new cards.

So, create a "new" card called "Hell Portal."  :o
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell. Carl Jung

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 09:40:55 am »
As a playtester, I can confirm. The alternate, alternate warlock is our number one priority and we will surely have this spell in the set.  ::) The downside is however that frost will be delayed to 2019. But, who cares? Gate to hell is all we need!  8)
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

Ravepig

  • Ambassador
  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 09:52:34 am »
As a playtester, I can confirm. The alternate, alternate warlock is our number one priority and we will surely have this spell in the set.  ::) The downside is however that frost will be delayed to 2019. But, who cares? Gate to hell is all we need!  8)

I wasn't actually serious about creating a new Gate to Hell card, but can appreciate the snark. We definitely don't want to wait until 2019 for a Frost Mage.  :)
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell. Carl Jung

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 10:02:03 am »
I'm glad you understood it was a joke.  :P Sometimes things like that aren't clear over internet.
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

Ravepig

  • Ambassador
  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 10:31:07 am »
I'm glad you understood it was a joke.  :P Sometimes things like that aren't clear over internet.


Of course. And even if you weren't joking, life's way too short to get butt-hurt over a subjective post. Ha ha.
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell. Carl Jung

Coshade

  • Arcane Duels Host
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1917
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
    • Arcane Duels!
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 11:11:06 am »
Clearly this card is a passageway to hell and whoever calls it is DOOMED
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Ravepig

  • Ambassador
  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 12:19:28 pm »
Clearly this card is a passageway to hell and whoever calls it is DOOMED

Still gotta try it once just for theme. I might doom myself, but it may be worth just to see how my opponent might react.
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell. Carl Jung

Super Sorcerer

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2017, 12:32:56 am »
ב"ה
Even in a pentagram book that have this spell I use it rarely. It worth the cost once you have at least 5-6 demons in the arena (with more coming). You wouldn't open the gate opponent is swarming too (happened to me maybe once).

DaveW

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
  • Banana Stickers 4
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2017, 06:14:59 pm »
The only time I played it was with Cerberus guarding in the zone... it worked pretty well for me that game, but the combination is hugely expensive. If I remember correctly I had hellfire traps all around it also. This was in my ultra-ddefensive mindset days... which isn't really the way to go for tournaments (or maybe at all).
  • Favourite Mage: Asyra Priestess

drmambo23

  • Ambassador
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 595
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2017, 07:03:37 pm »
Yes. Always yes
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
https://www.instagram.com/pistillidesigns/
Instagram and Facebook - @pistillidesigns

Ganpot

  • Jr. Mage
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2017, 12:54:08 pm »
I feel that most bad cards shouldn't be directly errata'd, because new cards can indirectly buff them to make them worthwhile again, or players might uncover niche strategies that utilize those cards in some way.  However, there are a handful of cards I do consider bad enough to be broken outright.  Nothing short of an errata can fix them, and their current iteration is basically unplayable: they might as well not exist because absolutely no one ever plays them.  Gate to Hell has always been one of those cards.  I consider it a shame, since I don't think it would actually take that much work to give the card a strategic function while keeping it unique. 

I don't think the card should have its cost reduced, nor be made a quick action to cast.  Instead, it should become the first late-game spawnpoint.  Add an innate Channeling of 3 to the card.  Then replace its current card text with this:
"All demon creatures gain Melee +1.  Gate to Hell enters play with a "Closed" token.  Once per game, as a full action, you may pay 12 mana to flip the token to the "Opened" side, and make the above attack against each non-flying creature in the arena.  Once opened, Gate to Hell gains the Spawnpoint trait and may summon an unlimited number of demon creatures during the Deployment Phase."

Now all of the separate parts of the card (the demon melee buff, the arena-wide attack, and the summoning capability) suddenly synergize with each other.  You can lay down the card early, protect it during the mid-game, and then suddenly weaken all of your opponent's creatures right before summoning a swarm of your own.  This also doesn't make the card overpowered.  It hurts the early-game economy of its mage, is vulnerable to being destroyed before it becomes useful, and isn't particularly useful outside of Warlock swarm builds.

Kelanen

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2017, 07:00:26 pm »
Why not just only do this kind of errata for cards that NEVER see play? If a card is so bad that it is wasted space in a product and literally no one has any good reason to use it ever, then you could errata it. Any cards that are overcosted but not enough to be useless would not be errata'd. Does that sound like a good solution?

And then people complain they want errated cards reprinted...

at this point you have had to playtest a new card, and print a new card - so just consign it to the bin, and create a new card.

Kaarin

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2017, 01:43:33 pm »
Cards that benefit from dark school portal conjurations could be introduced so there was another reason to play Pentagram and Gate to Hell.
Example: Non-legendary Hellbound demon that has its casting cost reduced by x for every friendly dark portal in the game.
If the x was 2 then casting four of them would "reduce" the Gate's casting cost by 8.
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
OCTGN: Wstrzasniety (UTC+2)

Beldin

  • The Craziest
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 741
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gate to Hell- yes or no?
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2017, 08:40:20 am »
Cards that benefit from dark school portal conjurations could be introduced so there was another reason to play Pentagram and Gate to Hell.
Example: Non-legendary Hellbound demon that has its casting cost reduced by x for every friendly dark portal in the game.
If the x was 2 then casting four of them would "reduce" the Gate's casting cost by 8.

I would never play that creature with Gate to Hell. I would just hard cast it at face value as it would need to reduce its cost by 13 before I would consider it a better option. Otherwise bin the GtH and save yourself the difference in mana cost to cast on other more optimal spells.