September 23, 2020, 08:00:51 AM

Author Topic: How to play the Pally  (Read 3489 times)

Reddicediaries

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How to play the Pally
« on: February 23, 2017, 11:55:58 PM »
I just suck with him atm. I never sure when to be agressive or to play armor. What are some things to do/ to not do with him. What are some example opners? Or just any tips at all.
Thanks!
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Borg

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 03:15:59 AM »
Paladin can start out defensively as well as anybody.
His Banner however also allows him to be one of the most aggressive mages around.

I think it's important for a Paladin to have the necessary pieces to play either opening well.

This is what I would consider a very strong defensive opening :

R1 19     Meditation Monk - Mana Crystal
R2 20+1 Guardian Angel - Defend
R3 17+1 Hand of Bim Shalla - Ehren ( heal Ehren 1 )
R4 18+1 ( heal Ehren 2 ) Martyr's Restoration ( Heal Ehren 7 ) - Battle Forge
R5 20+2 ...

When you see an opportunity to be aggressive very fast I'd make sure to be able to play this sequence

R1 19     Meditation Monk - Mana Crystal
R2 20+1 Double move to NC - Crusade Banner in FC
R3 24+3 2x Crusader Griffin - Move & Guard
R4 11+1 2x Bear Strength ( on Griffins ) - Move Mage
R5 12+1 Move Mage - Double Luminous Blast
R6 13+1 ...

That's 30 sbp total to be able to play both openings.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 04:18:59 AM by Borg »
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Coshade

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 07:48:11 AM »
Borg's suggestions rock!

One of the best things to do if you want to learn how to be aggressive is a pick a round you want to attack the enemy and just go for it. Test different rounds out and see what the differences are. You need to have a basis on what it's like to attack on Turn 2 as opposed to Turn 6. What you can and cannot do etc. The experimentation of the game is what makes training matches fun. Also if you want to go for longer games, knowing how much power the enemy can have at those timings is very useful as well.
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farkas1

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 08:52:32 AM »
The Paladin is one of the most versatile mages in the game.  For success I have always used Cassiel and some type of spawnpoint.  Sometimes even running a banner and a battle forge at times.  I run a lot of support cards.  Mending wave, a few mends, brace yourselfs,  ect and even ballista and or temple of light with a couple of temples, ect.   Picking your fight like Coshade suggested too is key.  With the Paladins abilities he has the ability to focus down almost any non Mage creature.  So choose your greatest threat and try and take it out.  With Cassiel support your Mage should be able to with stand some of the risk. 

In most cases having the buffed up Paladin run in with some creature support, hidden healing enchants,  and Cassiel is always pretty scary and very effective way to kill the opponent. 

I wonder what creatures and cards you are running because that may also help determine some better options.
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Arlemus

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
I just suck with him atm. I never sure when to be agressive or to play armor. What are some things to do/ to not do with him. What are some example opners? Or just any tips at all.
Thanks!

I sucked with him initially too, so I know your pain. 

What I learned from my experiences so far:

1).  His equipment is situational, he should not go "solo;" should not use battleforge IMO. 

Obviously, you'll want the Signet of the Dawnbreaker every game for mana/valor.  I tried to go solo-ish multiple times but even with Cassiel and Radient Breastplate, you simply fall behind in actions and lose slowly.  In my opinion, while his equipment is flashy, it is not generically good and requires the right situation (i.e. sword vs undead, shield vs range, etc).

2).  Play enough creatures with him.  I had trouble with this because I like to play creatures off spawnpoints (had gotten used to it) rather than FC with mage, but with the Pally I think it's necessary to be FCing them.

I'll start with a couple Dawnbreaker's Initiates because they're cheap and allow you to position without having to move.  They're especially nice if they die after you deploy and can teleport your new creatures to the most relevant zone(s).  Then, transition into Knight of the Red Helms, they're very strong for their cost (8hp, 3armor, potential 5 dice  :o) while thinking about what you'll need to deploy from the banner.  If you can spare the mana Crusader Griffs are also super strong.

3)  In terms of openers, I've tried a few but found that Banner + Mana Flower/Crystal turn 1, Temple of Meraveran + Cassiel Turn 2, is a sweet spot, at least for me.

Cassiel is far too useful to avoid using, IMO.  Her access to spells, along with her survivability, is too much to pass up.  She can FC mending wave for you, healing madrigal, consecrated ground, martyr's resto on your mage  :P, etc.

Temple of Meraveran puts a lot of pressure on your opponent, punishes them for attacking your creatures.  There's a good chance you'll be able to give all your holy creatures +1 melee almost every turn, which is pretty insane, pays off quickly.  Definitely can't recommend enough.

Mana Flower fixes that annoying 9 channeling.  Banner is cheap, provides more actions.  Honestly haven't tried the other holy spawnpoint with him so don't know how it would fit in.

4).  Choose Challenge target carefully.  More of a tactical issue, but obviously you don't want to pick something you'll never end up killing.

5).  Card specific notes:  Eye for an Eye is great vs a solo-ish mage, Helm of Justice is nice early flex (inexpensive, great ability), crusader griffins hit hard and easy to support  8)

Anyway, those are the most important things I've learned so far.  Hope it helps a bit.
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farkas1

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 02:36:48 PM »
Yea agree with you Arlemus on a few of your points. 

Cassiel is necessary for Paladin to help out with support. 

Yea I never run with only the Paladin.  I usually have a 3-4 creatures along with him to take things down.  I love knights of the red helm, they fit perfectly with trying to take down the biggest threats.  I prefer the smaller level one and two creatures verse some of the big ones for mana efficiency, but I look forward to dropping a couple of the bigger ones just to see the differences.  Lower level creatures also help with being able to have enough mana for their support and casting equipment.  Most of the Auras also work better the more creatures you have out.   

here is where I differ on some points

Sword of Radiance is awesome and is always good.  I like to buff it up and make it better with malakai's basiclica.  the extra light attack die for the sword will receive for the intended target.  This combos really well with temple of light, and light of dawns which is the second type of creature I love to use.  If it does 5 or more damage I gain the valor I spent using the bonus to the effect die.  Also adding dazes and burns are pretty useful in taking down targets.
 
If you run in with Paladin or use him for attacking verse hard casting creatures every turn, I think the battle forge is a necessary tool to help get the right equipment he needs.  With that being said if you don't have a large amount of equipment, battle forge is not a good option.   I like your point on all of his equipment is not necessary.  I would say I have it there in my book and have the option to throw certain equipment on is better for the flexibility I want to take down certain baddies.  Breast plate is great for attacking with him and I am spending the mana every time to throw a guard marker to defend my friendlies and swing back a second time.


I do like your points on temple of meraveran and look forward in trying it out.   Also have not tried the griffins out yet.  they look pretty sweet, and I am tempted to make room for them in my book. 
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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:01 PM »
I have yet to figure out how to profit from Crusade Banner.

So far I've been using Battle Forge and Cassiel, but am considering Temple of Asyra (with a Dawnbreaker's Initiate protecting/praying to it) for my creature summoning needs while quick-casting the equipment the old-fashioned way.

I haven't tried Temple of Meraveran yet, partly due to low creature counts and preferring to Intercept with my Paladin, but it might prove more useful if I switch to Temple of Asyra. Could be easy to activate if I drop a few Temple Sentries to force a challenged foe to attack them while racking up the Valor on both the Temple and Mage.

As for Malakai's Basilica combos, I've been experimenting with it in a Priest book, using Resplendent Bow (although Staff of Asyra could also work), with 3-4x Light of Dawn, Temple of Light and Pillar of Righteous Flame, nicknaming it "Step Into the Light." Even has [mwcard=MW1C31]Samandriel, Angel of Light[/mwcard] but can't usually afford to play her. It seems like a good plan, and works a little like Johktari's "Wounded Prey" ability, but better in several respects, assuming your creatures all have attacks of the Light damage type:
  • it also works against the opposing Mage,
  • it works against both living and non-living creatures,
  • it works against both damaged and undamaged creatures,
  • it doesn't fall off if the target gets healed,
  • you can choose a different target creature each round (or not; up to you),
  • it works with both melee and ranged attacks,
  • it works with non-creature attacks (e.g. ToL and the Pillar),
  • it adds to the d12 effect die rolls.
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Reddicediaries

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 04:38:14 PM »
@Borg: While I do like your attack opening, spending 4 sbp on griffins that can be focused fairly easily, so I'm not sure about it.
Also the defense opening can be replicated with the pally's shield so I'm not sure about it ethier.
And the other opening with eheren and alladnel you suggested would not work vs spawnpoint I think
Typical: monk flower
Vs Turtles (druids, priestess, necro) flower banner into flower ballista
vs priests and jbm's flower monk into whatever i need
Safe opening: Forge Flower
Thoughts?
For those who are asking, here is my deck


[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Banner Pally![/spellbookname]
[mage]A Paladin Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=PSA01]4 x Luminous Blast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]1 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=LG01J02]2 x Ballista[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSJ03]1 x Crusade Banner[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J22]1 x Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSJ06]1 x Pillar of Righteous Flame[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSJ02]1 x Consecrated Ground[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J08]1 x Hand of Bim-Shalla[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J04]1 x Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J13]2 x Mana Flower[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=PSC01]1 x Alandell, the Blue Knight[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSC02]1 x Artemis, Dawnbreaker's Eye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSC16]1 x Light of Dawn[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSC04]1 x Cassiel, Shield of Bim-Shalla[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAPRC04]1 x Ehren, Enduring Paladin[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAPRC07]1 x Meditating Monk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSC14]1 x Knight of the Red Helm[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSC06]1 x Crusader Griffin[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]2 x Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSE08]1 x Knight's Courage[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSE05]1 x Eye for an Eye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E01]2 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01E02]1 x Arcane Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E29]1 x Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E32]2 x Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=LG01E03]2 x Critical Strike[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE02]1 x Divine Might[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=PSQ01]2 x Champion's Gauntlets[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q27]1 x Dawnbreaker Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSQ11]1 x Signet of the Dawnbreaker[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q19]1 x Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ05]1 x Harshforge Plate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSQ07]1 x Radiant Breastplate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSQ13]2 x Sword of Radiance[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSQ02]1 x Dawn's Bastion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01Q04]1 x Leather Chausses[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWI13]2 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSI02]3 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSI01]3 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I28]1 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSI03]2 x Lesser Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI12]3 x Minor Heal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI14]1 x Heal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSI04]1 x Martyr's Restoration[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAPRI05]1 x Remove Curse[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I20]1 x Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAPRI02]1 x Cure[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 11:22:47 PM by Reddicediaries »
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Borg

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2017, 03:27:01 AM »
spending 6 sbp on griffins that can be focused fairly easily, so I'm not sure about it.
Any creature can be focused on, imo.
In general, Flying is one of the best defensive abilities a creature can have to keep it from being attacked.
You'll need to bring them down, use ranged attacks or Flyers of your own if you want to attack them.

Also the defense opening can be replicated with the pally's shield so I'm not sure about it ethier.
That's not correct.
You need a guard marker as well, which means you either have to waste your (full) action every turn to put on a Guard marker or have your Breastplate out as well ( which will cost you additional mana )
Guardian Angel can be your Breastplate + Shield who can heal herself and hit back all in one.
If you need a top notch defense quickly, you'll be hard pressed to find something better.

I'm not saying that Breastplate + Shield are bad ...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 03:37:20 AM by Borg »
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Arlemus

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2017, 03:59:38 PM »
Yea agree with you Arlemus on a few of your points. 

Cassiel is necessary for Paladin to help out with support. 

Yea I never run with only the Paladin.  I usually have a 3-4 creatures along with him to take things down.  I love knights of the red helm, they fit perfectly with trying to take down the biggest threats.  I prefer the smaller level one and two creatures verse some of the big ones for mana efficiency, but I look forward to dropping a couple of the bigger ones just to see the differences.  Lower level creatures also help with being able to have enough mana for their support and casting equipment.  Most of the Auras also work better the more creatures you have out.   

here is where I differ on some points

Sword of Radiance is awesome and is always good.  I like to buff it up and make it better with malakai's basiclica.  the extra light attack die for the sword will receive for the intended target.  This combos really well with temple of light, and light of dawns which is the second type of creature I love to use.  If it does 5 or more damage I gain the valor I spent using the bonus to the effect die.  Also adding dazes and burns are pretty useful in taking down targets.
 
If you run in with Paladin or use him for attacking verse hard casting creatures every turn, I think the battle forge is a necessary tool to help get the right equipment he needs.  With that being said if you don't have a large amount of equipment, battle forge is not a good option.   I like your point on all of his equipment is not necessary.  I would say I have it there in my book and have the option to throw certain equipment on is better for the flexibility I want to take down certain baddies.  Breast plate is great for attacking with him and I am spending the mana every time to throw a guard marker to defend my friendlies and swing back a second time.


I do like your points on temple of meraveran and look forward in trying it out.   Also have not tried the griffins out yet.  they look pretty sweet, and I am tempted to make room for them in my book.

Thanks for the reply Farkas.  Again, totally agree about Cassiel, she's amazing :)

In terms of bigger creatures, definitely would recommend you trying out Griffins if you haven't, they're really impressive.  5 dice from a creature you can easily support (flying + 2armor) with martyr's resto and auras (6 dice and 2 pierce with retribution  8) isn't anything to scoff at.

My main issue is with sword + basilica combo.  I tried it multiple times and realized it just wasn't paying off as much as it should.  The valor gain is nice, obviously, but I find that you can easily gain enough valor via his ring and ability card.  More importantly, you're essentially paying 13 mana (8 + 5) to gain 2 dice and a relatively poor effect die, unless you spend valor to buff it. 

Of course, like you said you can get more use out of the temple if you play Light of Dawns, which are good, but then that's even more investment and all still assuming you're getting hits on the target you pick.  Being Disarmed after investing so much into your mage's attack is also pretty demoralizing.

I just think Malakai's temple makes much more sense with the Priest since his basic attack is light.  Your opponent can't interfere as much.  As the Pally I've just found I'd much rather pay 13 for a Griffin that gives 5 dice (instead of 2*) on a body with good evasion and armor.  That's just my opinion, though  :P

I'll have to try to work in using his armor more, but I can rly only see it being most effective when you want to guard after summing a creature.

But yeah, you should absolutely try out Temple of Mereveran.  The condition to get valor tokens on it is so lenient and the effect is strong, especially when you have 3+ creatures. 
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Reddicediaries

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 12:23:12 AM »
I have tested some pally openings and have found:
I do not like monk crystal. I feel it is too slow and does not put any pressure on.
I think a forge turn 1 is the way to go. The second card could be: Cass, flower/crystal, monk, banner.
Blue knight I have moved away from. He costs WAY to much imo and you need to build your book around him for him to be at his peak effectiveness.
Ehren I think loses effectiveness with pally: he delays you even more.
Creature Selection: Brogan, White cloak knight, Knight of the red helm, dorseas, guarding angel, auroa, cassiel, and maybe grey angel.
The ideal first turn is tough!
Thoughts?
(Edit)
Maybe monk crystal into forge banner could work, but I need to test it first)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 12:37:48 AM by Reddicediaries »
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littlenog

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 03:18:28 PM »
Vet Belt would be a nice addition if your going with 2 regrowth spells.

Reddicediaries

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Re: How to play the Pally
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 06:23:05 AM »
Agreed, that makes a lot of sense.
The biggest decision now is wether to go for SWAT timing rush or temple. I feel SWAT is more risky BC if they shut down the push I am done and temple much better in the late game, but might be not as well suited to the paladin's specific playstyle.

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