November 29, 2021, 03:31:49 PM

Author Topic: Changing the legality of enchantments  (Read 3034 times)

Pyrion

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Changing the legality of enchantments
« on: April 22, 2017, 06:26:53 AM »
My opponent enchants one of my creatures e.g. with Tangleroot and reveals it then I enchant the same creature with Eagle Wings which makes it an illeagal target for Tangleroot. Does the Tangleroot get destroyed in this case?
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jacksmack

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 07:05:52 AM »
My opponent enchants one of my creatures e.g. with Tangleroot and reveals it then I enchant the same creature with Eagle Wings which makes it an illeagal target for Tangleroot. Does the Tangleroot get destroyed in this case?

The only time it would be possible to 'counter' tangleroot by revealing eagle wings would be between the steps of casting the spell (, tangleroot - face down), where legality is checked for and must be valid through all the steps.

Once its cast it can be revealed even if the creature has flying or not.


not quiet right.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 02:03:16 PM by jacksmack »

Pyrion

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 09:31:48 AM »
Once its cast it can be revealed even if the creature has flying or not.

I don't think you can.

Rulebook p. 18:
"When you reveal an enchantment, check to be sure the target listed on the enchantment matches the object it is attached to. If it does not, destroy the enchantment without effect. In some cases, the object may have changed and is no longer a valid target."

But I didn't find anything in the rulebook or in the supplement that says what to do if the target becomes invalid when the enchantment is already revealed.
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Puddnhead

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 10:30:13 AM »
1) If you cast a Tangleroot on a flying creature and then reveal it you lose the tangleroot because it is not a valid target.
2) If you cast a Tangleroot on a non-flying creature without revealing it and then the creature subsequently gains flying, then if you reveal Tangleroot, the creature becomes an illegal target and you lose Tangleroot.
3) If you cast and reveal Tangleroot on a non-flying creature and the creature subsequently gains flying, the Tangleroot remains on the creature even though it is flying.
3a) If the tangleroot gets transfused off of the flying creature it cannot then be reattached to the creature that has gained flying.

Enchantments only check their target for legality when they are attached to the creature.  If I put a Bear Strength on a living creature and then that creature somehow gained "Non-living" it would retain the Bear Strength.  If that creature ever lost Bear Strength I could not re-enchant it because it would now be an illegal target.

The funny thing about Mage Wars is that you can put whatever enchantment you want on anything face down.  You are on your honor that it's a legal target.  The only time it ultimately matters is when the enchantment is revealed and attached and everyone can see the target line.  If you are in error and it is not a legal target you simply lose the enchantment and all mana spent on it. I would also assume in a tournament setting that you'd get some sort of demerit for illegal targeting as it is technically cheating.  However, if the game state changes such that the original enchanted object becomes an illegal target you have not cheated, but have been outplayed :)

Another classic example of the finnicky nature of enchantments is Demonhide Mask.  With this equipment the Warlock gains the demon subtype when making an attack.  If you have another demon creature that is enchanted with Demonic Link and Enchantment Transfusion you are legally able to transfer Demonic Link over to the Warlock equipped with Demonhide Mask during an attack sequence because the warlock is considered a demon creature at that point.  After the attack Demonic Link is not destroyed because there isn't a constant targeting check.  Targeting is only checked during the instant that the enchantment is being attached.
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Borg

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 11:26:45 AM »
The funny thing about Mage Wars is that you can put whatever enchantment you want on anything face down.  You are on your honor that it's a legal target.

This hasn't happened to me yet ( thankfully ) but I was wondering how you'd solve such an issue in a tournament environment.

Let's say player A wants to cast an enchantment on an opposing creature, player B Transfuses a FD enchantment to his creature and reveals a Nullify. Then it turns out Player A's enchantment could not legally target the creature ... ? Player A just created a mess ... :)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 11:42:53 AM by Borg »
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Puddnhead

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 12:17:11 PM »
The funny thing about Mage Wars is that you can put whatever enchantment you want on anything face down.  You are on your honor that it's a legal target.

This hasn't happened to me yet ( thankfully ) but I was wondering how you'd solve such an issue in a tournament environment.

Let's say player A wants to cast an enchantment on an opposing creature, player B Transfuses a FD enchantment to his creature and reveals a Nullify. Then it turns out Player A's enchantment could not legally target the creature ... ? Player A just created a mess ... :)

That he did. :)  In a casual game I'd work out something fair with the opponent.  In a tournament setting I could see a disqualify ruling for Player A.  Don't mess up, :)
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Zuberi

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 01:25:41 PM »
Puddnhead is on top of this. Everything he said is correct. Targeting is not constant in Mage Wars. It is only checked at 3 times:
1. The Declare Spell step
2. The Resolve Spell step
3. When you Reveal the Enchantment

Since the enchantment is hidden during the Declare Spell step and the Resolve Spell step, you're kind of on your honor there. You're only really able to check what your opponent has done when it's revealed. If at this point it is clear that the enchantment was put on an illegal target, during any of the aforementioned checks, then your opponent has cheated. In a casual game, you may be able to resolve this in a friendly manner as hopefully it was just a mistake. In a tournament, get a judge involved.

After the enchantment has been revealed though, it generally doesn't check for legality any more. It is able to stay in play regardless. The one exception I can think of is if you want to move it with Enchantment Transfusion or Shift Enchantment. Those spells also cause you to check to make sure the new target is legal.

V10lentray

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 10:15:13 AM »
1) If you cast a Tangleroot on a flying creature and then reveal it you lose the tangleroot because it is not a valid target.

Target a flying creature, then hit it with knockdown, or wait until it is guarding, then reveal tangleroot.
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Borg

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Re: Changing the legality of enchantments
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 12:54:53 PM »
Target a flying creature, then hit it with knockdown, or wait until it is guarding, then reveal tangleroot.

You cannot do it in that order ( because you're not allowed to target a flying creature with Tangleroot - even FD ) but you can hit the Flyer with a Knockdown first ( thus removing Flying ) and then play Tangleroot on it ( provided it is a corporeal creature )
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