January 26, 2022, 11:23:56 PM

Author Topic: Quick Cast, Conjurations, Before or after your Creatures action phase  (Read 2431 times)

Biblofilter

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Hi!

Just wanted to check something.

Could not find it with google or forum search, and i want to make sure so:

If you use a random creature action, and then use your mage QC action to cast a conjuration.
Can you then use the Conjuration?

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jacksmack

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A conjuration like Hand of Bim Shalla can be used like this.

MrBubu

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I would say you cannot. There is one "slot" called "after friendly creature action phase" and you used that slot for you qc. Now it's gone. I think there even was this situation with pre-errata Wizard Tower at a GenCon.
Maybe I can find it somewhere

Reddicediaries

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As long as it doesn't say immediately​ after, the prior rulings are correct.
The Phoenix shall rise.

Zuberi

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Even if it says "immediately", you can do as many "before or after creature action phase" effects/actions as you want. There is nothing stopping you from quick casting a conjuration and then using it's effect unless something on the card itself prevents it (such as load tokens on a Ballista).

Jacksmack is correct. The other two are wrong.

jacksmack

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I believe that the word immediately actually indeed is mentioned somewhere in relation to these effects.

However... the ruling is that it can be used together.

So you can activate your creature. After its activation is over you can:
Shoot with Temple of Light
Heal a damage with temple of Bim Shalla
Shoot with Ballista
Quickcast with your Mage
Move Raincloud

You can do these things in any order. Also: all, some or none of them could be used before activating your creature. (instead of using the effects after the activation.)

Zuberi

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To give more insight into it, other than just my word, this specific question isn't really answered specifically by any of the rules documents. But there have been discussions on the forums about it as well as some I've had with Arcane Wonders employees directly. To explain the rationale behind it though, I want you to forget about the original question for a little bit.

MrBubu is partially right in that there's only one time period designated as "after a creature action phase". However, nothing limits you to only one effect during that time period. You could reveal multiple enchantments if you wish to, just for an example. There's no place in the rules that says you're limited to just one effect between phases. In fact, multiple sections (such as the enchantment section) say very plainly that you can do multiple effects.

However, any effects you use at this time, are basically occurring simultaneously. The time after a creature action phase isn't broken up into multiple steps or phases. It's just one time period. If you want to do multiple things at that time, then they're all happening simultaneously and you're merely choosing the order to resolve them in. That's why if both players want to do something during that time, you have a timing issue that has to be resolved by Initiative. Everything up to this point is clearly supported by a reading of the rules book.

So, now, if I have two things in play that both have an IMMEDIATELY after a creature action phase effect, then I can trigger them both simultaneously and choose the order to resolve them in. The immediately doesn't really matter due to the circumstances of the situation. Everything is happening at the same time anyways. This is the part that isn't really clarified by the rules, and makes you wonder why they put "immediately" on the cards to begin with, but it is the logical conclusion of the rules.

So, that's the thinking that got us here. I know, that line of thinking breaks down a bit when dealing with two effects that have to occur in a specific order, such as casting something before you can use it. They clearly aren't happening simultaneously. But, think of it as they're happening so quickly that they might as well be simultaneous. The time between phases is the blink of an eye, more or less instantaneous.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 07:25:19 AM by Zuberi »

Biblofilter

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Thanks for the replies.

I believe there was some trouble with Wizard Tower at Gen-Con 2015.
That's were I had my memory from. As I said I couldn't find it.

What I did yesterday was:

1) Activate Thornlasher. Attack opponent Mage. Snatch happened.

2) QC Corrosive Orchid - then attack with it and use mist to dissolve something.

I wasn't totally sure I could do that.  ::)

I could QC the Corrosive Orchid first, but I preferred to have it in the zone with the Thornlasher.




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jacksmack

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Thanks for the replies.

I believe there was some trouble with Wizard Tower at Gen-Con 2015.
That's were I had my memory from. As I said I couldn't find it.

What I did yesterday was:

1) Activate Thornlasher. Attack opponent Mage. Snatch happened.

2) QC Corrosive Orchid - then attack with it and use mist to dissolve something.

I wasn't totally sure I could do that.  ::)

I could QC the Corrosive Orchid first, but I preferred to have it in the zone with the Thornlasher.

I also remember a ruling from Gen-Con was brought up here on the forums. IIRC the ruling made at the tournament was incorrect.

You may do what you did with the lasher and after put orchid in the lasher zone.