December 05, 2020, 12:54:11 pm

Author Topic: Invisible vs Chant of Rage  (Read 1192 times)

Beldin

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Invisible vs Chant of Rage
« on: July 07, 2017, 03:21:21 pm »
I was doing some thought experiments today as I go back to Forcemaster as its one I have never got to work yet.

Am I right in thinking that Chant of Rage can place a Hate token onto an invisible creature?

My reasoning is that the token placement is an effect that does not directly target the invisible creature, you pick a creature you control.

If not could someone please explain.

Zuberi

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Re: Invisible vs Chant of Rage
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 03:50:07 pm »
Short answer, yes you can put the Hate token on an invisible creature. For the exact reason that you mentioned. It doesn't require you to target the hated creature.

I feel like this warrants a longer answer though on exactly how it would work. The enchanted creature would be forced to move towards the Invisible creature, but since it is invisible it is impossible for the enchanted creature to attack it. Therefore, once they're in the same zone, the enchanted creature can perform whatever action they wish. Including leaving the zone. (Then having to move back in if they have a quick action left, unless they were hindered).

This might be a little wonky thematically, but I'm sure you can think of some way to justify it. Perhaps the spell just mystically draws you towards the object of your hatred.

Beldin

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Re: Invisible vs Chant of Rage
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 06:05:38 pm »
Thanks dude! I assumed as much.

The longer argument is that a card with the invisible trait cannot be targeted directly, due to not being seen. Area attacks and other abilities affect it as it is still there, just invisible. The spell makes the other creature hate the creature that is physically there. It moves towards the creature it can sense it is there, just cannot see to attack.

Mechanically this is called indirect targeting. You do not target the object with an effect, the effect targets the player and forces them to make a decision instead. The choice of an invalid object under direct targeting is valid in this case as the player is targeted and not the object.

I asked this question here to gain clarification that this works the same way in Mage Wars. I was basing this on MTG rules beforehand.