December 03, 2020, 11:25:29 pm

Author Topic: formation  (Read 3078 times)

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
formation
« on: October 16, 2017, 12:29:29 am »
Formations have 2 effects.
Is it right that the first applies in the target's zone and the second everywhere in the arena?

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 03:56:25 am »
No, both only apply to soldiers in their zone.
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 05:26:44 am »
seems logical... but where is it written?

Halewijn

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 09:06:47 am »
It's not written explicitly because these cards are already packed with text.  All formation effects only apply to creatures in their zone. Writing "in this zone" again is pretty redundant because of the rules related to formations (1 per zone) and since it's written at the first effect too.

But, you are correct, it isn't specified again for the second ability, but it's also not specified that this ability would work in the entire arena.

  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
When in doubt kill it with fire? I never doubt and crush them right away.

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2017, 09:21:30 am »
no more than one revealed formation in a zone (rules).
first effect to "all friendly soldiers in the zone" (card).
but the second effect is specified on the card to "all friendly soldier"... a little unclear at the very least!

thanks for the clarification!

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2017, 12:04:25 pm »
Looking at the octgn images, since I don't have the physical cards on me, it seems that two of the formations (Fire at Will and Form Ranks) do specify "in this zone" for the secondary ability, while the other two (Dig In and Press the Attack) do not. Without that specification, the understanding would be that location doesn't matter, i.e. the effect is Arena wide.

I do believe that this is an oversight though, given what formations are supposed to represent and how the other two work. I would definitely play them as only affecting the zone and expect them to get an errata to match that. Until then I guess it's a matter of RaW vs RaI.

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2017, 06:42:46 am »
you're right!
on the cards too, 2 FaW and FR specifie "in this zone" for the second effect.

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 02:55:38 pm »
Another question about formation:
can the payed effect be used several times?

for example, can the controler pay 3 times 2 mana on Form ranks to make one attack roll 6 less dices?

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 10:00:23 pm »
I will confirm with the design team, but I am pretty sure it can not be stacked like that.

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 10:32:27 pm »
I will confirm with the design team, but I am pretty sure it can not be stacked like that.
thanks!

it would be too powerfull!
but the card as written allows it, doesn't it?

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 12:07:39 am »
I donít believe so. When the trigger happens, you have the option to pay 2 mana to reduce the attack by two dice. Not to pay X and reduce the attack for every two mana spent. Iím pretty sure the card is clear, but Iím feeling a bit insecure tonight so will see what others say.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:10:31 am by Zuberi »

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 12:49:31 am »
I see.

I think it would have been clearer to write that when the condition is completed I can do it once (that it doesn't open a window to do it as many time as I want).
I can only find the Faith Healer's staff that isn't clearly bounded too.

Zuberi

  • Rules Guru
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2504
  • Banana Stickers 57
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2017, 02:50:01 am »
I've gotten confirmation that it is indeed only once per trigger. For what it's worth, the same is true of Faith Healer's Staff (only use it once per upkeep).

exid

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • Banana Stickers 4
  • The longer the better!
    • View Profile
Re: formation
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2017, 06:21:52 am »
thanks for your efficiency! (as usual)

and i hope there will be an item about formations in the next rules supplement.

Coshade

  • Arcane Duels Host
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1917
  • Banana Stickers 6
    • View Profile
    • Arcane Duels!
Re: formation
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 02:42:25 pm »
I just wanted to award everyone in this thread a Banana Sticker. There is a lot of in depth thinking that went into formations and I appreciate Exid pointing out a flaw in it. Also Exid you should consider signing up to be a playtester. You have consistently pointed out these types of flaws and would be really helpful for the game.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest