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Author Topic: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand  (Read 4179 times)

SirJasonCrage

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Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« on: November 27, 2017, 05:04:44 PM »
Hey there,

I've been playing a game against a equip-heavy Forcemaster. At one point in the match, she wanted to equip Shifratar while having a Mage Wand in Weapons hand and that Orb thingy in shield hand. She wanted to take the Orb thingy from her shield hand back into her book, swap the wand to shield hand and then equip Shifratar.

She argued it should be possible because she feels like it should.

I argued that, at the point where she wanted to equip a weapon, she already had one. Because her Shield hand was occupied, she could not swap hands, thus the only thing swappable is the wand. She would have to either swap the orb to weapons hand before equipping, which is not possible, or somehow drop the orb thing from her shield hand before deploying, which also is not possible.


Can you tell me whether my argument about timing and rules is correct or her feeling of "that's what I'd do if I was a mage"?
Thank you.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 01:09:13 PM »
I would like to know the answer to this question as well. Zuberi?

Also SirJason, would you happen to be talking about the game you played against me about a month or two ago on octgn?

I'm not sure why you thought I'm a girl lol. My username on octgn is henry_ketchup and Henry is a guy's name.

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RomeoXero

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 01:30:24 PM »
 there is currently no mechanic for swapping hands, that's why there are specific slots for shield and weapons. Its important that you designate which slot you use upon casting something that could go im either hand fir just that reason. Consider equipping something to be a very binding magical effect. Its for this same reason that curse item works the way it does. The mage cannot just "drop" an item he no longer wants to have, in fact if a mage wants to rid himself of an item he either needs to dissolve it or cast over it, in this way eye of bael works offensively. So when you put your symbiotic orb (thingy) into your shield hand, the only way to get it into a different hand if its your only copy would be to cast over it with another viable equipment, put it back into your book, then cast it again on a following round. The only other way to get on demand access to an equipment you just put back into the book would be to cast over tge slot with something else, return it to the book, then cast Gear up. Aside from those ways you shpuld in fact be stuck with the spell in question, in the slot in question.

Tldr. Nah you can't do that
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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 01:31:32 PM »
It goes in the hand of what's being replaced. Can't change hands.
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RomeoXero

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 01:32:25 PM »
Lol like i said.
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jacksmack

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 01:57:52 PM »
Ehhh.


You donít have to specify what hand a wand goes into.

It goes into either weapon slot or shield slot.
If both are available then your set.

Then you cast nr 2 wand (not same type).
Here your choice is if you want to send first wand back or not.
Usually you donít and keep both.

If you decide the cast a third equipment that can fit into either slot, then you must choose which wand is going back to the spellbook.
And not before this point must you choose or specify what wand is where.

If you replace it with a main hand weapon then you get same choice.

Kelanen

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 02:23:42 PM »
Actually - I'm pretty sure that when you cast a wand, you have to specify which slot it uses as it resolves. I don't do that, and I've never seen anyone do that, but I'm sure that's when the slot is locked, not when you try and cast a third held item...

There's definitely no swapping of hands however, and you replace the specific slot, not shuffle things around.

jacksmack

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 03:13:39 PM »
Where is the rule that you must specify a slot?
(I donít remember ever reading it.)

If your not specifying it then the talk about swapping around is irrelevant, as nothing is allocated.


RomeoXero

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 03:30:11 PM »
 If it doesn't matter than why are there specific equipment slots? Its obvious where your head piece is going hence nobody ever specifies, but in a situation where it matters its am important distinction. A spiked buckler can only go in one spot. If youve got two wands In either hand the shield MUST replace the wand in the shield hand as that's the only place it can be attached. Up till now it hasn't been important because almost everything either takes up both hands at once  (sledge, halberd, bows etc) or it didnt matter which hand it was in (wands). But now that it makes a difference due yo the specific slot requirements of pertinent equipment its now an important distinction to make. The slots have always been there. Its always been a necessity otherwise AW would just print on every shield "cannot equip more than one shield" and not bother with specific equip slots at all.
As it stands now ive seen in tournament play, players specifying what slot they are using.

And no matter what there's no mechanic for swapping hands. It just doesnt make sense.
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jacksmack

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 04:10:55 PM »
It doesnít matter if swapping makes sense or not.
But Iíll add that no being able to swap seems ridiculous. You can do magic, you can fight, but you cannot swap?
Lol.


AFAIK there is a check when you cast something, that if the slot is  alresdy used then the equipment in that slot is going back.
If thatís the only rule regarding equipment slots, then what I wrote before still stands.

Kelanen

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 05:19:00 PM »
Up till now it hasn't been important because almost everything either takes up both hands at once  (sledge, halberd, bows etc) or it didnt matter which hand it was in (wands). But now that it makes a difference due yo the specific slot requirements of pertinent equipment its now an important distinction to make.

The slots have mattered for a long time - just rarely...

Shield Only: Emerald Elk Stave, Spiked Buckler, Dawn's Bastion, Symbiotic Orb (and some of us have been using Buckler for years)
Weapon Only: Loads - 27 different weapons!

AFAIK there is a check when you cast something, that if the slot is  alresdy used then the equipment in that slot is going back.
If thatís the only rule regarding equipment slots, then what I wrote before still stands.

If it checks whether the slot is used, then equipment must be allocated to a slot when cast, for them to be present when this check is carried out.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 05:22:37 PM by Kelanen »

RomeoXero

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2017, 07:03:06 PM »
And we're not actually in disagreement about the key point. We seem to be arguing two different points. You say that the check is made during casting, well then when is the check made for swapping? The check is made to see if THAT slot is vacant upon casting, but out must be a particular spot. There are spells for switching the target of enchantments and such. So the precedent is there. You shouldn't be able to switch hands when you require an action or priority maneuver In order to switch anything else. The slots are there for a reason.
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wtcannonjr

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 08:35:02 PM »
See the RAW 4.0 on page 21 for the section titled "Replacing Equipment". It describes the steps to take to replace equipment in a location with a new equipment spell. The existing spell is returned to the spellbook as long as the spells are friendly controlled. i.e. you can't cast equipment spells on your opponent to replace their equipment.

In the example above it seems that the new weapon could be cast and the mage wand is then put back in the spellbook. On a future turn the mage wand could be cast in the 'shield' hand to replace the shield which would then be placed back in the spellbook.

So it is possible to 'swap' equipment. It just takes multiple cast spell actions and is not very efficient.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 08:37:05 PM by wtcannonjr »
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RomeoXero

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 09:08:37 PM »
That's my exact point. You can swap hands but not for free, not for no action, and not just coz you want to keep an item but also have a hand specific item stay.
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Zuberi

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Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 09:49:21 PM »
I heard someone say my name, so I'll weigh in.

Any equipment that lists a location MUST occupy a location. They never exist in limbo. Since there are no rules regarding changing an equipment's location, then the assumption is that you CAN'T. Thus, logically, we must conclude that location is chosen (when there is a choice) when resolving the spell cast of the equipment. As existing in both or neither are not legal options at any point in time. The Resolve Spell step is also when you would replace equipment, so this fits together nicely.

So, with this, the answer (as has already been given) is that the Wand was clearly in the Weapons slot and is what would get replaced. They could then recast the wand to replace the orb if they wanted to, costing them mana and an action to do so (plus a whole other round in which to prepare the spell).

In practice, people rarely declare the location of an "OR" equipment when cast. It's either obvious, or they leave it undeclared. But technically, if you were asked which location it is in, you would have to commit to one. Again, limbo is not a legal equipment placement, lol.