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Author Topic: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them  (Read 2496 times)

Werekingdom

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Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« on: July 27, 2018, 05:04:08 PM »
So the question here is, "Are free actions too OP to be used in the game with out a rebalancing.

Personal I see free action cards in two areas, namely equipment or conjuration, as such. I think that the limitation in range or threat of being dissolve is the counter weight. As such if you think that free actions are becoming too OP then we should look at improving the couter weight (like when the Ballasta gained War school only and Unique

Tell me what you think, are they too powerful, and if so what can be done?

The cards in question:
Akiro's Hammer   
Altar of Domination (I tend to see this as a spawnpoint instead of a free action card, but since some think it is a free action card, I've included it.
Altar of the Iron Guard   
Asyran Robes   
Ballista   
Crown of Protection   
Dancing Scimitar   
Dig In   
Emerald Elk Stave   
Faith Healer's Staff   
Fire at Will   
Form Ranks   
Hand of Bim-Shalla   
Helm of Justice   (Like the Altar of Domination I don't think this is a free action card)
Malakai's Basilica   
Meredia's Blessing   
Packleader's Cowl   
Press the Attack   
Radiant Breastplate   
Raincloud   
Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword   
Staff of Beasts   
Strategist's Helm   
Temple of Light   
Temple of the Dawnbreaker   
Vinewhip Staff   
V'Tar Force Sentry   
Wizard's Tower   
Ziggurat of Undeath   

« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 05:40:43 PM by Werekingdom »
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zot

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2018, 05:11:35 PM »
they can be op when strung together. most everything in the game should have a cost of some kind. mana is usually that cost. and it is self limiting.

DaveW

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2018, 07:09:27 PM »
they can be op when strung together. most everything in the game should have a cost of some kind. mana is usually that cost. and it is self limiting.

I think that's why some conjurations were made Unique, etc. ... to keep from stringing multiple free actions together.
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farkas1

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2018, 09:25:18 PM »
Ok yea I donít see them being OP.  Some are maybe more stronger then others.  And most are limited by unique, once per turn ect.   I think if we are to look at them on an individual basis maybe some would be either epic spells or a mana cost to make the action more fair.  Some however are sometimes situational and either donít make a big enough difference. 


As of right now I think conjurations can be taken oiut if they are a big enough threat.  Not really an issue




Iím up for changes but I do feel we need to be very selective.  And tackle the biggest issues first.  Like goblin builder.  ;)

I feel too and I will post about this more in another post but I do see some concerns of how this we effect the community.  Will it be divisive or will it bring more people in to the community.   I think maybe having tourneys and or unofficial rulings is cool for those things.  For newer players I could see some issues.   
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exid

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2018, 02:27:29 AM »
I don't see the problem with the free actions... aren't creatures objects that bring actions too?
when you cast a dwarf and a balista, you'll have two more attacks to kill your opponent... are they unbalanced?

DaveW

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 11:14:52 PM »
I don't see the problem with the free actions... aren't creatures objects that bring actions too?
when you cast a dwarf and a balista, you'll have two more attacks to kill your opponent... are they unbalanced?

The issue at hand is where you have multiple things that give you free actions, one right after the other, with no opportunity for the opponent it intervene.
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exid

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 02:00:55 AM »
ok: between 2 creatures the opponent can activate one of his.
but if I have many creatures, i will have many more activations than my opponent.

do these free actions have very powerful effects?
(i never had problem with them...)

Kelanen

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 07:05:10 AM »
These abilities are fine, and a designed part of the game.

DaveW

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 05:54:04 PM »
ok: between 2 creatures the opponent can activate one of his.
but if I have many creatures, i will have many more activations than my opponent.

do these free actions have very powerful effects?
(i never had problem with them...)

We are not talking about creatures.

Certain spells say something like "before or after activating" ... and if you have a handful of these out, you can string together a number of effects before the opponent can take an action.
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DevilsVendetta

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 08:59:25 PM »
And if you have 7 creatures to your opponents 1. You're going to wind up in the same situation at some point.

exid

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 01:57:05 AM »
And if you have 7 creatures to your opponents 1. You're going to wind up in the same situation at some point.
that's what i meant.
creatures and objects that give a free action are both objects that give you an effect each turn (in opposition to on shot spells like attacks and incantations). the creatures have specials rules (activation turns) to decide when you can use them when free actions can be used more freely, but it doesn't make a huge difference for me (less than the fact that a balista won't move when an archer will).
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 02:05:07 AM by exid »

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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 08:34:23 AM »
I would separate the list into Special Action cards that have effects for no Action cost (Free Actions), such as, Corrosive Orchid, Temple of Light, and Ballista AND Special Action cards that provide additional action options at the same Action cost (Special Actions). Spells in this category would include Staff of Beasts and Crown of Protection. i.e. both of the effects on these cards have a mana cost and action cost unlike the 'free' attack action from a Corrosive Orchid spell which does not have an action cost to pay.

Should you include Pillar of Righteous Flame in your list? 

I don't see any of the current card pool as overpowered since players always have a counter play available to the avoid or limit the impact. For example, players can decide to not enter a zone containing the Pillar of Righteous Flame to avoid its attack.
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Re: Free Actions: Are they OP and if so how do we balance them
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2018, 02:49:01 AM »
My view on these is that none are OP.

If a player is able to set them up so they all fire at once, they have foregone the opportunity to cast other things in the meantime, and if their opponent has not interfered with it, then they deserve everything they get. 
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