May 16, 2022, 10:03:07 AM

Author Topic: Damage Barrier  (Read 18623 times)

Lord Strife

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Damage Barrier
« on: November 26, 2012, 06:42:01 PM »
Let's say that an evil warlock smacks my wizard that had the forsight to cast reverse attack upon himself.

Now the warlock has his armor with a damage barrier on.  When he targets himself does the barrier trigger?

Drealin

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 07:29:19 PM »
He isn't really targeting himself, you take control of the attack, so when his damage barrier goes off it would hit you.  Which is still usually better than just letting the attack hit.

Arcanus

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 11:42:11 PM »
Ha!  That's awesome!  This is the first time I have heard about a Reverse Attack with a Damage Barrier!  

Yes, his own Damage Barrier would trigger!

Lord Strife

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 11:40:26 PM »
So does the damage barrier damage the wizard or the warlock?

Arcanus

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 09:03:48 AM »
The Warlock.  

The melee attack has been bounced and redirected to the Warlock, and starts a new attack sequence, with the Warlock being the attacker, and the target of his own attack.  When the Damage Barrier step is reached, it is followed as per normal where the attacker receives a Damage Barrier attack from the target.

The Warlock is going to hate this, but the Wizard is going to feel he really got his mana's worth on the Reverse Attack!

krj

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 03:19:50 AM »
@Arcanus
Damage Barrier hitting it's owner is totally nonsense...

Shad0w

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 07:13:55 AM »
Quote from: "krj" post=4821
@Arcanus
Damage Barrier hitting it's owner is totally nonsense...


Here is the rules for Damage Barrier

Damage Barriers
A damage barrier is a special kind of protection that gives a defender a “free” attack against every attacker that makes a successful melee attack against it. This attack occurs automatically during the damage Barrier Step of the attack. The defender may not use a damage barrier unless
the melee attack was “successful”. If all of the attacks were avoided by Defenses, or “missed”
because of being Dazed, then the damage barrier cannot be used. However, if at least one melee
attack rolled dice during the Roll Dice Step, then the damage barrier may be used. A damage barrier can attack each attacker once each round. If an attacker gets multiple strikes, the damage barrier only gets to attack once after all the attacks are complete.

Note: A damage barrier works only against melee
attacks. A creature that is the target of a ranged attack or other non-melee attack does not get to use its damage barrier. Damage barrier attacks always have the Unavoidable trait, and cannot be avoided by a Defense.


Because this attack from the barrier is automatic the Warlock can not choose to turn it off and therefore gets hit by it.


I hope that helps.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

Arcanus

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 08:26:47 AM »
Thanks Shadow.

Krj, I am going to agree with you that it seems silly. As much as possible we have made Mage Wars to function as realistically as possible, following laws of physics,and as if magic were real.  In this manner it also makes the game intuitive and easier to learn; Things work like you think they should.

However, we have also tried to keep the game streamlined and simplified too, and have avoided adding extra rules for rare situations in order to maintain realism.  The situation with the damage barrier is rare, and our decision was to let it function without any special additional rules.

However, that being said, we could easily errata Damage Barriers, and add this rule: A Damage Barrier has no effect if both the attack source and its target are the same object. I'd like to get some feedback from players and the team on this first.  We really do listen and care about player input!   :)  Thanks.

Gewar

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 10:23:02 AM »
For me, it depends on, how does Reverse Attack work ("in real life"). If it is force field that under the preasurre of an attack directs it (preasure) to the attacker, damage barrier should not work.
But if in addition to that, that forcefield, is giving feedabck to the attacker (attacker feels his own armor etc. with his sword), damage barriers should work.
"I've seen this spell before - sold in alleys, brothels, and taverns. Men want more life. Always, they want more life."
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Tacullu64

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 11:53:30 AM »
I like Arcanus's explanation. I can see this as creating a feedback loop affecting the controller of the damage barrier. I would rather it not get the errata.

krj

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 08:41:53 PM »
thanks for concern. i think i understand why DB will hit it's owner according to rules.

X - attacker / has Damage Barrier
Y - defender/ X's enemy / has Reverse Attack

X makes melee attack against Y

codex (last pages in roolbook) says:

Damage Barrier
A damage barrier surrounds an object and makes an
automatic attack against each enemy which makes
a melee attack against the object it surrounds.

so X is surrounded by the damage barrier which will do automatic attack against X's enemy (Y) if Y makes melee attack. And only reason Y isn't hit by DB is that the rules didn't say that he becomes an attacker after using RA. Rules only says he became a controller of the attack.[strike] I think it's not exactly how it should be. If i control attack and reverse it to my opponent i should be an attacker from that moment.[/strike]

hmm.... actually i've changed my mind :D that's funny. i tried to imagine that situation, and it's not that silly as i thought. just because DB work for melee attack only. So X try to hit Y with for example sword but it's reversed against him and he hits himself. DB doesn't have it's own intelligence and hit back creature which attacked object which DB is defending. in that situation it's same creature :D
before i always was imaging some thunderbolts flying from X to Y than reverse from Y to X, and that's why i
rather treat Y an a new attacker. I feel calm now :)

thanks a lot for explanation.

PS.
what would happen if X also had Reverse Attack?

Drealin

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 02:16:14 AM »
Reverse Attack says you become the controller of that attack.

Warlock attacks Wizard.
Wizard reveals Reverse Attack and is now the attacker, canceling Warlocks attack, during step 2.

We now do a new attack order with the Wizard attacking the Warlock.
Wizard attacks Warlock and deals damage.
Warlocks damage barrier goes off against the attacker, which would now be the Wizard as Reverse Attack states, and damages the Wizard.

Now that the Wizards attack is done we move back to finish the Warlocks attack.
The attack being avoided during the Avoid Attack step, we now move to Step 5, as per page 27 of the rule book.
With no Additional Strikes, no damage barrier to go off on the Wizard, and no Counterstrike, the attacks ends.

Reverse Attack avoids the current attack and, all during Avoid Attack Step 2, does a complete Attack Order before resuming the original attack.

If it weren't for the sentence that says You become the controller of that attack, I could see how you might be attacking yourself when your target reveals Reverse Attack.  I may also not be understanding what you mean by "the controller", I don't know how you can control an attack and not be attacking.

Here is the full Reverse Attack text:
When this creature is attacked, you must reveal Reverse Attack during the Avoid Attack Step.  Redirect the attack back to the attacker, who now becomes the target of that attack.  You become the controller of that attack.  Then, destroy Reverse Attack.  If the attack is Unavoidable, destroy Reverse Attack without effect.

Shad0w

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 06:04:25 AM »
You become the controller of the attack but the source of the attack is still the Warlock.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

the_iron_troll

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2012, 02:48:27 PM »
Wait. The source of the attack is still the Warlock.

So does the damage barrier from the Warlock's armour hurt himself?

Shad0w

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Re: Damage Barrier
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2012, 04:55:10 PM »
This is from earlier in the thread.

Quote from: "Arcanus" post=4813
The Warlock.  

The melee attack has been bounced and redirected to the Warlock, and starts a new attack sequence, with the Warlock being the attacker, and the target of his own attack.  When the Damage Barrier step is reached, it is followed as per normal where the attacker receives a Damage Barrier attack from the target.

The Warlock is going to hate this, but the Wizard is going to feel he really got his mana's worth on the Reverse Attack!
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage