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Author Topic: Shift Enchantment and Nullify  (Read 3350 times)

halvor

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Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« on: December 17, 2012, 09:09:50 PM »
I recently played a game where a curse was on my mage and the opposing mage cast shift enchantment to move the curse onto my vampire. The vampire had a nullify spell on her so the spell was nullified. He then kept the curse on my mage as if the nullify spell prevent the spell from having any effect at all.

However you could also assume the curse was nullified after the curse was removed from my mage. The curse would then, just be destroyed.

Anyone have a ruling on this?

pixelgeek

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 09:19:53 PM »
I would suggest that the curse is removed from the old target and then the assignment of it to the new target fails and the curse is lost. The first words of Shift Enchantment are to move the enchantment. After that the new target causes the spell to fail. The curse has been moved but stopped so its no longer on the original target.
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Drealin

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 12:19:06 AM »
Shift Enchantment has the target: Enchantment & New Target.
Nullify says: When this creature is targeted by an incantation or enchantment spell controlled by an opponent...

The Spell Order is:
1. Cast Spell
2. Counter Spell
3. Resolve Spell

This means that in Step 1 your friend casts Shift Enchantment paying for the spell and declaring his targets.  Next in step 2 you must reveal Nullify during the Counter Spell Step.
Because the spell was countered it is not resolved and the enchantment stays where it was.
If you didn't have Nullify then nothing would have happened during Step 2, and in Step 3 the enchantment would have moved to the new target.

It is important to understand that the text of a spell only has any relevance if you get to the Resolve Spell step, unless it says otherwise.  If the text started happening during Step 1, then Nullify it pointless.

NovemberAdam

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 10:38:15 AM »
Isn't there in essence two actions happening with the Shift Enchantment spell?  The first being to pull it away from the target and the second to place it as if it where your own spell?

So as the enchantment is being ripped away you could dispel the Shift Enchantment spell.... stopping the the enchantment from leaving the target.  If you don't stop it then, it is in essence in the new casters hand, at which point it is cast on the new target, where the Nulify spell then destroys it once it is revealed.

At least that's how I would think of it, anyways.

Also.... who controls the curse anyways?  The mage who owns the creature , or the mage who cast the spell in the first place?

pixelgeek

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 11:08:32 AM »
Shift Enchantment only works on Enchantments that the casting player controls. So the Mage who cast the curse would be the one shifting it.
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Drealin

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 12:22:50 PM »
Quote from: "NovemberAdam" post=5427
Isn't there in essence two actions happening with the Shift Enchantment spell?  The first being to pull it away from the target and the second to place it as if it where your own spell?

So as the enchantment is being ripped away you could dispel the Shift Enchantment spell.... stopping the the enchantment from leaving the target.  If you don't stop it then, it is in essence in the new casters hand, at which point it is cast on the new target, where the Nulify spell then destroys it once it is revealed.

At least that's how I would think of it, anyways.

Also.... who controls the curse anyways?  The mage who owns the creature , or the mage who cast the spell in the first place?


The problem with that is that you can only stop the spell during Step 2, and the effects, be it 1 effect or more, don't happen until Step 3.
So even though realistically it may make more sense that the enchantment disappears, the game rules state that all targeting happens at one time, during Step 1 of casting a spell, and you must reveal Nullify during Step 2, which is before the enchantment starts to move.

I agree that what you are saying makes sense realistically, but that's not how it works according to the rules; and even though AW wants this game to be very realistic, unfortunately for gameplay, it isn't always possible to do that in every situation, without having way too many "what if" rules.

halvor

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 12:57:24 PM »
Arcanus has it correct I believe.  

He moved the curse to my Vampire, then I revealed Nullify on my Vampire, and then he interpreted the rules as if the nullify canceling out the shift enchantment. He then interpreted it as the shift enchantment had never happened.

Thank you for your reply.

Arcanus

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 11:18:13 AM »
Guys, my apologies for being absent a couple days here.  

I am going to rescind my original post and agree with Drealin. I missed an important detail Drealin mentioned:  The Shift Enchantment targets both the Mage and the Vampire.

That targeting will trigger the Nullify on the Vampire, and destroy (counter) the Shift Enchantment, and the curse remains intact, unmoved.

halvor

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Re: Shift Enchantment and Nullify
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2012, 08:11:22 PM »
I can see how that can happen. Thank you for the clarification.