January 21, 2022, 02:05:26 PM

Author Topic: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck  (Read 19492 times)

Koz

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 09:11:54 AM »
Quote from: "sIKE" post=7739
Quote from: "piousflea" post=7729
Also, other than a single Royal Archer (easily killed by attack spells) you don't have anything that can kill flying units. A swarm of Bats or Falcons is likely to completely embarass this build.


Gravikor?


Which did not actually end up being in the expansion which means we are waiting for it until at least the NEXT expansion.

For the record the expansion also does not include the Minotaur, Hurl Meteor or the Ballista.   :(

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 11:35:11 AM »
Sigh, I would like to take the deck and make it swarm formidable, but really need to run it against one to get the feel for what needs to be done to tweak the deck. It would love for it to be tourney ready of course!
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

piousflea

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 435
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 04:42:19 PM »
Get rid of an explode (Knights are already good vs equipment build) and a Force Hold (your build already owns big-creature builds), and pick up an Eagle Wings or two, and a Circle of Fire. (The fire damage shield)

This should increase your versatility against air and swarm builds.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2013, 07:28:18 PM »
Nice! Wings on my Knights would be brutal! Also looking at losing the Dawnbreaker ring as pointed out eairler and add in the Enchanters Ring. Then add in Ring of Fire.  I'll see how that works.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Sausageman

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 06:34:02 AM »
Looking at this spell book it makes me think my book construction is WAY off.  I'm looking at this list thinking you have an incredibly limited pool with which to actually kill your opponent.  Four creatures, four pretty weak attack spells (which yes, can be 'wand-ed', but that's easy enough to get rid of) and then it's down to the priestess herself.
Am I way off here?  Does this not need more 'oomph'?

Tacullu64

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 418
  • Banana Stickers 10
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 11:00:55 AM »
Quote from: "Sausageman" post=7797
Looking at this spell book it makes me think my book construction is WAY off.  I'm looking at this list thinking you have an incredibly limited pool with which to actually kill your opponent.  Four creatures, four pretty weak attack spells (which yes, can be 'wand-ed', but that's easy enough to get rid of) and then it's down to the priestess herself.
Am I way off here?  Does this not need more 'oomph'?


You should post yours in another thread so we can see it too. We can definitely stand for the posting of more spellbooks.

Koy

  • Jr. Mage
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 12:55:50 PM »
I completely agree Sausage.  I look at the posted books and it is almost a different game than how we are playing up here.  I simply can't imagine going into a duel with a single dissolve for example.  The spellbooks in my group are very in school too, the "cherry picking" from all available schools is almost unheard of.  It's too expensive and too much core power is lost.

In this particular book with the one dissolve, only 4 creatures (one archer?!), no real attack spells to replace the lost creature damage... it is completely different, as I've said.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 01:31:41 PM »
@Koy and @Sausageman, I love the game and it truely is an adaptive deck that has evolved (now on v7) away from most of the light spells other than creatures and healing type spells.  I had many of the spells you would think would go in this kind of deck but died before I ever got a chance to get them out. I would like to see your how your deck for the Priestess looks and I might even try to run it. The flip side of the coin is what has she been dueling against? My buddies Warlock has alot of the dark spells in his deck but does have other schools in it.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Koy

  • Jr. Mage
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 05:07:27 PM »
sIKE I understand completely and please let me offer my apologies if it seemed in any way I was criticizing or attacking your spellbook and/or playstyle.  I am far from an expert, just a very enthusiastic fan that plays the game every day while huddled for warmth in long winter nights.  

However, as this is your thread on your book let's talk more about it!  I am curious about how your games play out.  What is the average duration of a duel with this specific priestess deck vs your warlock friend?  I know you've started enjoying recent success against your warlock buddy, so I would love to know how you get your kill?

You do have two Elemental Wands, which suggest that is a key card, but I would happily trade shots with you if your wand is slinging Geyser or Jet Stream and I'm throwing Fireballs, Thunderbolts, Lightning Bolts, Drain Life etc.  I suspect the wands are really to keep the geysers flowing to combat the Burns your warlock friend is dishing out?

With no weapons for your mage to wield, and no strong attack spells, I can only assume your creatures are the pain bringers.  The archer is surely a strong a card, especially with a Hawkeye, but one alone can't project enough power and would (in my circle at least) die extremely fast as a priority target card.

The two knights are certainly incredible but with no Dawnbringers to get defense dice rerolls they aren't being fully maximized.  As a side note, my preferred mage is the wizard of the lightning variety, so I don't get to see many Knights used against me.  :)

The unicorn is a good creature and goes to great when it supports your forces, but with only 4 total other creatures possible the AOE regeneration isn't quite as strong.  Assuming this is the big draw of the unicorn for your book (unless the Charge +2 is), I'd argue that perhaps a better creature could serve your deck as the Big Bad.

To answer your questions, the Warlock is the heavy favorite of all the players in my circle.  (As much as they whine non-stop about how much they hate playing against the Wizard, they seem to hate actually playing him even more so.)  When I play it is almost guaranteed that I am facing a Warlock.  

As for my Priestess book, it  is the usual "temple build" and as a wild over simplification it basically wins by either having a ridiculous reaction advantage with Hand/Dawnbreaker spam with the Temple of Light dealing heavy damage + control effects, or the enemy mage starts devoting resources to killing my temples which means they aren't hurting me or my creatures.  It's a very tough choice to play against and I have always felt it was "too good" as a book strategy.  When you add in the simply ridiculous ability the Priestess has to shoot Daze/Stun control around and it's just a ridiculous mage to fight.

As an aside, I had assumed the expansion would end the temple build with all the ballistas and the like, but I am hearing that the ballista didn't make it in the set, so maybe it will stay strong?  *shrug*  

Mostly, I am curious about how your book performs for you.  I make a point to build books that don't counter one specific build like yours does, so between that paradigm shift and the meta shift from how your group plays versus mine, this is a fascinating thread!

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2013, 08:15:03 PM »
I am not offended what so ever! I am fasicnated with others game play as of this time it has been me vs my friend. The Warlock I play typically Drops Deathlock then moves and Equips LOH. Round two Idol of Pestelensne then moves again in my direction and defense Bracers. Round three Charge and smack with LOH or move + Fireball. Round 4 (Charge + LOH) or Bear Strength + LOH, afterwards is drop more equip or curse and smash with LOH, he will chase me around the board and use teleport to stay up in my grill drop the dbl strike card. Thats the deal. No healing on my side. The main purpose of the Archer is to kill the Deathlock. If I survive that long I can then slowly start turning the tide. The Knights are the main tool for that buff them up and send them to beat on the Warlock, I stay behind and heal them. With their defense and armor I typically can cast a heal/minor heal on each one every other round, and either Geyser them to get rid of burns or if i'm lucky send it the Warlocks way.

This is way simplifed, but you should be able to figure out the punch/counter punch that goes on here.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

piousflea

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 435
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 11:09:07 PM »
Quote
it is the usual "temple build" and as a wild over simplification it basically wins by either having a ridiculous reaction advantage with Hand/Dawnbreaker spam with the Temple of Light


IMO, the "Temple Build" is really only overpowered against extremely "slow" builds. (such as having a spawnpoint + multiple mana crystals) A fast beatdown deck should always win against a "Temple build", purely out of mathematics:

- A Hand costs 5 mana for a choice between +1 melee, +1 armor, or 1 healing. Meanwhile, Bear Strength costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 melee, and Rhino Hide costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 Armor.

- A Dawnbreaker costs 8 mana for the chance to reroll an enemy attack and make it deal less damage (or no damage). An Imp or Bat costs 5 mana for the guarantee of being able to perform an attack.

- A Temple of Light can roll a lot of dice if you have a lot of temples. Problem is, you pay a minimum of 24 mana (Light + 3xHand) to get a 4-dice attack. That's the same cost as a Lord of Fire.

=====
Quote
In this particular book with the one dissolve, only 4 creatures (one archer?!), no real attack spells to replace the lost creature damage...


4 big creatures, supported with bear strength and heals, is more than enough to win a game. When playing a beatdown deck I never play more than 2 big creatures in one game.

Also, Wall of Thorns + Jet Stream can deal a lot of damage for very cheap mana.

I would recommend that you drop the Moonglow Amulet and pick up a Staff of Asyra instead. A 6-dice attack (staff + bear strength) with a high Daze/Stun chance is EXTREMELY powerful, a lot of people don't expect the priestess to melee but she's not bad at it.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 11:52:23 PM »
@piousflea

As the current reining Queen of Battle, I listen closely to what you have to say!  :) I have swapped in a couple Eagle Wings and a Enchanters Ring and pulled out 8 points elsewhere. I have to say that was very painful execise and now adding these two in will probally want to make me cry. I am hoping to test the deck Monday or Tuesday. If it works well I will post up the newest rev.

I got my copy of FvM in yesterday. I am reviewing the cards this evening, I really am thinking that I like the Force Hammer on a Wand + Hawkeye. Very mana effeicent though a bit costly. Just would have to figure out what 6 points to swap out...  :unsure:
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

halvor

  • Jr. Mage
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2013, 09:13:16 AM »
sIKE if you go with force hammer, you might want to bring it out only after having 20 mana in the bank. I would suggest having a invisible fist in your deck in case you don't have enough mana for the force hammer. With the expense of a elemental wand in your deck, you want to make sure you have more than one use for it.

Koz

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2013, 11:50:16 AM »
Quote from: "piousflea" post=7873
Quote
it is the usual "temple build" and as a wild over simplification it basically wins by either having a ridiculous reaction advantage with Hand/Dawnbreaker spam with the Temple of Light


IMO, the "Temple Build" is really only overpowered against extremely "slow" builds. (such as having a spawnpoint + multiple mana crystals) A fast beatdown deck should always win against a "Temple build", purely out of mathematics:

- A Hand costs 5 mana for a choice between +1 melee, +1 armor, or 1 healing. Meanwhile, Bear Strength costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 melee, and Rhino Hide costs 5 mana (4 with Enchanters Ring) for +2 Armor.

- A Dawnbreaker costs 8 mana for the chance to reroll an enemy attack and make it deal less damage (or no damage). An Imp or Bat costs 5 mana for the guarantee of being able to perform an attack.

- A Temple of Light can roll a lot of dice if you have a lot of temples. Problem is, you pay a minimum of 24 mana (Light + 3xHand) to get a 4-dice attack. That's the same cost as a Lord of Fire.

=====
Quote
In this particular book with the one dissolve, only 4 creatures (one archer?!), no real attack spells to replace the lost creature damage...


4 big creatures, supported with bear strength and heals, is more than enough to win a game. When playing a beatdown deck I never play more than 2 big creatures in one game.

Also, Wall of Thorns + Jet Stream can deal a lot of damage for very cheap mana.

I would recommend that you drop the Moonglow Amulet and pick up a Staff of Asyra instead. A 6-dice attack (staff + bear strength) with a high Daze/Stun chance is EXTREMELY powerful, a lot of people don't expect the priestess to melee but she's not bad at it.


I think you are off on your analysis of the Temple build.  My Temple build can and does handle beat down well (whether solo mage or mage plus big creature).  Your analysis of the Temple of the Dawnbringer is off because you don't account for it's best feature, the rerolling of Defense dice.  Your analysis about Temple of Light is flawed too because the number of dice rolled on the attack isn't the point of the card, it's the Daze/Stun lock it helps set up.  How much mana is it worth to Daze/Stun an enemy mage or big creature?  You didn't account for that in your analysis by focusing only on damage dice.  The Temple of Light Daze/Stuns 50/50 with only two Temples out and fires for free.  Very strong.

I've seen your Warlock build and your write up about how you play it.  My Priestess (pre-expansion) runs like this:

Turn 1 (20 mana): Temple of the Dawnbringer (8 ) + Cobra Reflexes (9) = 17 mana (I now have a 50/50 Denfense that can be re-rolled, very strong

Turn 2 (13 mana): If opponent looks to be rushing then cast Temple of Light (9) + Pillar of Light (4).  Cast the Temple and fire immediately.  Only use the Pillar if the opponent cast a big or failed to get Dazed/Stunned from the Temple (save mana otherwise)

Turn 3 (10 mana if cast Pillar or 14 otherwise).  Depends on the situation.  If you have 14 mana, cast a Knight.  If you have 10 and they are up in your grill get out some Armor (Leather Boots or Gloves or Dragon Scale Hauberk if they have LoH out) + Pillar of Light.

This forces a reaction out of my opponent immediately if he is playing beat down.  If they ignore this set up, they will be missing me... a lot.  If they react to what I'm doing then I gain Tempo advantage while I produce a couple of really strong creatures (Knights are good vs rush).  Starting on turn 2, the rushing mage (and his "big" if he has one) will be getting hit with multiple Daze/Stun effects from the Temple and Pillars.  Once the miss chances start to stack up from Daze/Stun and Defense dice, they will have a hell of a time hitting anything.  Stacking the miss chances also keeps you safe even vs. things like Knockdown and Unavoidable attacks becuase they will most likely be Dazed as well.  

Very strong.

If you are rolling through Priestess builds with your beat down Warlock I have to question how good the Priestess builds and the strategy behind them are.  No offense to anyone who is playing that build of course, my experiences are just different.  Playgroups have different experiences to be sure, and this build/strategy is far from unbeatable (nothing is) but it's VERY strong vs beat down.

Koz

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Priestess - Counter Warlock Beatdown Deck
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2013, 12:03:47 PM »
Quote from: "piousflea" post=7873
I would recommend that you drop the Moonglow Amulet and pick up a Staff of Asyra instead. A 6-dice attack (staff + bear strength) with a high Daze/Stun chance is EXTREMELY powerful, a lot of people don't expect the priestess to melee but she's not bad at it.


I agree, if people aren't running it, they sure should be.  I try to get mine out early in the game vs beat down just to keep stacking the Daze/Stun effects.