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Author Topic: The Forcemaster's Forcefield  (Read 32535 times)

Tacullu64

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2013, 02:12:11 PM »
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=9134
I am not underselling its power. Once you get the card I wanted to be in the set. You will see how I was able to get past the Forcefield every round in a solo vs solo match with no problem. I will let you know two of the three cards needed are already out as of the FM vs Warlord set. I never even bothered to get rid of it since it was a non-issue when play testing. Also once we have the last card they will be in most of my build from now on.


I know you haven't given us any details on the card, but it sounds like it could make the Forcemaster unplayable. I don't see the Forcefield as a problem, in fact I see it as the only thing keeping the Forcemaster in the game. If this card gets around the Forcefield as easily as you say and is worth puting in every deck, I don't see her being able to compete.

malgor

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2013, 02:34:01 PM »
to be clear again i dont' think it makes the forcemaster unplayable in any way.  i've won as the FM and defeated her a few times, too (only once when forcefield was active).  Even according to you there are two cards (apparently so valuable you won't name them lol) necessary to counter it.  Just saying it's a strong enough card that it will take a lot of new players some time to figure out how to deal with it (aside from a rush of small creatures).

You seem to just be casting it aside and while that may true I feel like you're a very experienced player and newer players will have a harder go against the forcefield.

Aquila

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2013, 02:40:05 PM »
What cards???  :woohoo:  :P  :side:

Shad0w

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2013, 02:49:06 PM »
Quote from: "malgor" post=9138
to be clear again i dont' think it makes the forcemaster unplayable in any way.  i've won as the FM and defeated her a few times, too (only once when forcefield was active).  Even according to you there are two cards (apparently so valuable you won't name them lol) necessary to counter it.  Just saying it's a strong enough card that it will take a lot of new players some time to figure out how to deal with it (aside from a rush of small creatures).

You seem to just be casting it aside and while that may true I feel like you're a very experienced player and newer players will have a harder go against the forcefield.


I just takes play experience how learn how to work around. The version I had wanted had no upkeep was a shield and could have up to 9 charges but you payed each upkeep to recharge it. The cost was 2 mana per recharge each upkeep
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Shad0w

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2013, 02:50:51 PM »
Quote from: "Tacullu64" post=9137
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=9134
I am not underselling its power. Once you get the card I wanted to be in the set. You will see how I was able to get past the Forcefield every round in a solo vs solo match with no problem. I will let you know two of the three cards needed are already out as of the FM vs Warlord set. I never even bothered to get rid of it since it was a non-issue when play testing. Also once we have the last card they will be in most of my build from now on.


I know you haven't given us any details on the card, but it sounds like it could make the Forcemaster unplayable. I don't see the Forcefield as a problem, in fact I see it as the only thing keeping the Forcemaster in the game. If this card gets around the Forcefield as easily as you say and is worth puting in every deck, I don't see her being able to compete.


It may seem like that but she was still my number 1 choice, because when the combo  is used to break down the field it gave me time to use the same combo on the other mage.
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Tacullu64

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2013, 03:01:23 PM »
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=9143
Quote from: "Tacullu64" post=9137
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=9134
I am not underselling its power. Once you get the card I wanted to be in the set. You will see how I was able to get past the Forcefield every round in a solo vs solo match with no problem. I will let you know two of the three cards needed are already out as of the FM vs Warlord set. I never even bothered to get rid of it since it was a non-issue when play testing. Also once we have the last card they will be in most of my build from now on.


I know you haven't given us any details on the card, but it sounds like it could make the Forcemaster unplayable. I don't see the Forcefield as a problem, in fact I see it as the only thing keeping the Forcemaster in the game. If this card gets around the Forcefield as easily as you say and is worth puting in every deck, I don't see her being able to compete.


It may seem like that but she was still my number 1 choice, because when the combo  is used to break down the field it gave me time to use the same combo on the other mage.


Interesting, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

shapeshifter

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2013, 06:02:19 PM »
So when i asked for advice to handle the forcefield, im happy to find that others are having similar difficulties with it as I am. Im still not confident a swarm plan is fantastic as the forcemaster can react with sweep attacks, charms, mind controls and mass sleep. It just eats up so many mage actions and mana on summons to deal with a single enchantment.

This card is hard to play around, and shuts down entire strategies. I like the suggestion of using the wizard's arcane zap, that is good cheap investment to take out a charge, but only applies to the wizard. Im still looking for a good non-Dispel option to the forcefield. Im actually beginning to think that the best plan is placing a nulify on my opponent's forcemaster.

Tacullu64

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2013, 06:44:22 PM »
Quote from: "shapeshifter" post=9153
So when i asked for advice to handle the forcefield, im happy to find that others are having similar difficulties with it as I am. Im still not confident a swarm plan is fantastic as the forcemaster can react with sweep attacks, charms, mind controls and mass sleep. It just eats up so many mage actions and mana on summons to deal with a single enchantment.

This card is hard to play around, and shuts down entire strategies. I like the suggestion of using the wizard's arcane zap, that is good cheap investment to take out a charge, but only applies to the wizard. Im still looking for a good non-Dispel option to the forcefield. Im actually beginning to think that the best plan is placing a nulify on my opponent's forcemaster.


The swarm is effective against the Forcefield, and yes the Forcemaster does have ways to counter a swarm. The game wouldn't be as good if she didn't. It just harder for her to counter the swarm especially if you keep pressuring her. That is the real key. I kept a pair of Goblin Slingers at range and a pair of Goblin Grunts in her zone with the Warlord. With the Barracks and two other outpost I payed just 1 mana from the Warlord for grunts and 4 for slingers. It was easy to keep the creatures coming, attack with the Warlord and cast something else or save mana for a big creature. If she cast a zone spell she may get 2 goblins for as much or more mana than they cost me.

The Forcefield is a great spell,but like everything else so far in this game there is an answer for it or 2 or 3. :P

piousflea

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2013, 07:13:00 PM »
The Forcefield is strong but balanced IMO. It is a huge mana investment, and it cannot regain more than one Forcefield charge per round. As long as you keep the pressure up and don't let her escape to regenerate FF charges it is not super overpowered.

You can use avoidable attacks to burn FF and save unavoidable attacks for when FF is down.

mitkosim

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2013, 06:20:38 AM »
I have to agree that the FF is powerful but far from unanswerable. For one, you should never be out of Dispels before the FM has her FF out ... this is just common sense but it is similar to how you should never run out of Dissolves before the Priestess has her healing wand out or the warlock has his Lash out. As to its tendency to shut down solo builds, those are mostly Warlock and maybe Wizard. The warlock can really light the FM up with curses and then her Purge Magic actually becomes a liability because it will remove her FF as well while his helm and damage barrier keep him safe and chip away at her life. The wizard can tax her mana even more than she herself already does and between the siphon and the suppression cloak, maybe a couple of Essence Drains on her spores, she will be hard pressed to keep much of anything up ... and then the Hydra comes out and triple strikes through the FF :P Even for a swarm build, I would actually prefer not to swarm her FF exactly so I don't get Mass Slept. All you have to do is get in two attacks per round to punch though the FF and then lay the unavoidables to do some damage.

Tacullu64

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2013, 07:41:12 AM »
Quote from: "mitkosim" post=9216
Even for a swarm build, I would actually prefer not to swarm her FF exactly so I don't get Mass Slept. All you have to do is get in two attacks per round to punch though the FF and then lay the unavoidables to do some damage.


Good post. I cut some to get to the part I wanted to comment on.

When you swarm you can make some of the attacks from range making Mass Sleep an expensive way to deal with 2 creatures. If you position your creatures carefully she might  only be able to affect one creature.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2013, 09:00:11 AM »
Nullify is certainly one of the most cost effective strategies, You could also us multistrike to get past force field, (the second or third attack at least) Battle fury to eat up charges, any direct damage would get past it. A cheep spell on a wand to eat up charges,(Im thinking invisible fist) As it was said a wall of thorns. There is alot you could do....that said force field is quite amazing!
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Tacullu64

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2013, 09:18:55 AM »
Quote from: "DarthDadaD20" post=9221
Nullify is certainly one of the most cost effective strategies, You could also us multistrike to get past force field, (the second or third attack at least) Battle fury to eat up charges, any direct damage would get past it. A cheep spell on a wand to eat up charges,(Im thinking invisible fist) As it was said a wall of thorns. There is alot you could do....that said force field is quite amazing!


Those are all viable strategies, although personally I wouldn't use Battle Fury. When I use BF I want to stick a large amount if damage in 1 round, not eat up FF tokens.

Although I think it's been mentioned previously the Wizards Arcane Zap is a cheap attack.

Attacks with push effects could remove 2 tokens if you are also able to Bash the FM into a wall with the passage blocked trait.

Edit: After thinking about it some more I don't know if the push effect would hit the FF like a double strike, or the FM like a damage barrier. Either way it's still a good tactic.

DaveW

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2013, 11:01:13 PM »
Quote from: "Tacullu64" post=7969
I might actually put a second in the spellbook now, but I'm not sure. In my initial assessment I figured there was no way it would get dispelled because of cost. It still seems unlikely, but now I'm not as sure.


I've been toying with having two in my FM spellbook... not only is there an off chance of one getting dispelled, but I wonder if sometimes (very rarely) it might be worthwhile to voluntarily replace it.

The only time I see this as a possibility, is when the FF is beat down the previous turn, and when facing two to four high-effect creatures and no little ones. Then I wonder if it wouldn't be worth not paying upkeep for the one use per turn... and then bring out another copy as soon as you can the next turn, gaining two more uses that turn.

It's just a question of whether the mana cost (discounted for not paying upkeep) and loss of an action is worth it. Right now I'm guessing that you would have to be pretty desperate in terms of life left while at the same time having an overabundance of mana available... conditions that likely won't happen at the same time.

Here's a question though: Can someone remove a spell that he or she cast earlier at any time (or is failure to pay upkeep the only way to do this)? If so, then I wonder if it isn't good to remove the first one when smaller creatures have knocked it down to zero tokens to get another fresh one out (presuming enough mana, etc.
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Tacullu64

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Re: The Forcemaster's Forcefield
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2013, 11:16:09 PM »
That is a good question. I would guess failure to pay the upkeep is the only way. I'm not 100% sure but that is the logical answer within the rules I think.

As for the scenario you presented for doing so, I would stack defense rolls. If you can get just one more defense toll a turn to go with the FM built in defense roll you still have 3 opportunities to avoid attacks. One guaranteed from the FF and 2 you'd have to roll for.

I would definitely include a second Force Field.