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Author Topic: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?  (Read 7131 times)

Taruslar

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2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« on: March 03, 2013, 05:59:50 AM »
Hello to everybody,

in the rulebook on side 36 is written, that it is allowed to have one more copy of epic spells in my spellbook. For example is take 2 Surpression Orb into my spellbook.

Also it is written to have 4 copies of of all higher level spells. For example i take 4 Huginn, legendary spell.

So i understand the rule like that.

From Huginn i can have only one in the Arena cause he is legendary. Every time he dies, i can cast a new one, up to 4.

From Surpression Orb it is possible to have 2 of them at the same time in the arena, cause not legendary. Do the payment from the mana for every's non-mage creatures movement stack? so now 2 mana for the movement? and it works for any non-mage creature, my own also?

Did i understand the rules right?

Thanks for answer.

Tacullu64

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 07:41:28 AM »
Quote from: "Taruslar" post=8524
Hello to everybody,

in the rulebook on side 36 is written, that it is allowed to have one more copy of epic spells in my spellbook. For example is take 2 Surpression Orb into my spellbook.

Also it is written to have 4 copies of of all higher level spells. For example i take 4 Huginn, legendary spell.

So i understand the rule like that.


From Huginn i can have only one in the Arena cause he is legendary. Every time he dies, i can cast a new one, up to 4.

From Surpression Orb it is possible to have 2 of them at the same time in the arena, cause not legendary. Do the payment from the mana for every's non-mage creatures movement stack? so now 2 mana for the movement? and it works for any non-mage creature, my own also?

Did i understand the rules right?

Thanks for answer.


Welcome to the forums.

You can only have 1 Suppression Orb in your spellbook because it is epic.  There can only be one copy of an epic spell in your spellbook, although you can have more epic spell as long as they are different spells.

Suppression Orb is also legendary so there may only be one in play at a time. That includes both you and your opponent.

You may have 6 copies of non epic level 1 spells in your spellbook.

You may have 4 copies of non epic level 2 and up spells in your spellbook.

Hope this helps.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 09:42:43 AM »
Epic:One copy may be permitted in your spell book.
Unique:Each player may only have 1 copy of this object in play at a time.
Legendary:Only 1 copy of this object can be in play at a time.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 09:52:37 AM »
So, epic is just a tool for spell book building.You may only have one card of the same name that is epic. Unique means that each player may have one on the board at any given time. Legendary means only one of that card may be in play at one time. If you wish to play a card of the same name, you must first destroy the card in play.

Suppression Orb is:Legendary-Epic. Only one may be in play at any time,(not including you and your opponent, only one is allowed in play.) And epic means that you may only have one card named Suppression Orb in your spell book.

Hope that helps! The codex can give you more information if it is needed.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Cross

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 02:15:08 PM »
Quote from: "DarthDadaD20" post=8533
Epic:One copy may be permitted in your spell book.
Unique:Each player may only have 1 copy of this object in play at a time.
Legendary:Only 1 copy of this object can be in play at a time.



I am a newbie and found this useful.

-Cross

BlueByLiquid

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 02:58:59 PM »
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wtf?

I have been playing for a while and just realized Legondary means one in play INCLUDING the other player. (Yes I see the rules are clear Legondary vs Unique so I am not arguing that is not clear) This is one of the few rules I have found in MW that seems just silly. If you played beastmaster vs beastmaster this would be a pretty big deal to not be able to pull out the ferret or the forced shadow. Can anyone provide a real reason why this would be in the game as it seems only to make the rules convoluted. Why does one mage summing a legendary creature make him unavoidable to another? If you want to use the defense that the creature is unique in all existence and therefore can only be summoned one at a time then you shouldn't be able to summon him/it again after it is destroyed because well he would be destroyed. I completely understand the need for balance but this seems to unbalance things strongly.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 07:16:39 PM »
Quote from: "Cross" post=8542
Quote from: "DarthDadaD20" post=8533
Epic:One copy may be permitted in your spell book.
Unique:Each player may only have 1 copy of this object in play at a time.
Legendary:Only 1 copy of this object can be in play at a time.



I am a newbie and found this useful.

-Cross

Thank you! I'm glad you found that useful.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 07:29:05 PM »
Quote from: "BlueByLiquid" post=8544
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wtf?

I have been playing for a while and just realized Legondary means one in play INCLUDING the other player. (Yes I see the rules are clear Legondary vs Unique so I am not arguing that is not clear) This is one of the few rules I have found in MW that seems just silly. If you played beastmaster vs beastmaster this would be a pretty big deal to not be able to pull out the ferret or the forced shadow. Can anyone provide a real reason why this would be in the game as it seems only to make the rules convoluted. Why does one mage summing a legendary creature make him unavoidable to another? If you want to use the defense that the creature is unique in all existence and therefore can only be summoned one at a time then you shouldn't be able to summon him/it again after it is destroyed because well he would be destroyed. I completely understand the need for balance but this seems to unbalance things strongly.

As I cannot give you a official reason for this rule being as it is, I will just offer you my opinion. The fact that there is a Unique system is really nice. Most games only offer a "legendary" kind of rule. Back in the day, MtG had the same Legendary rule,(Only one can be in play) and latter changed the rule to, If a second legendary comes into play, both are destroyed.(That makes even less sense.) If you want to think about it from a realistic perspective, imagine this: When you summon a creature, you are "Pulling" it out of some distant plane. Once it is destroyed, it goes back to that plane. Now in a plane that has wolves, you can just keep summoning wolves as there are many on that plane, plenty for every one. Now if you are trying to summon a person like "Gandalf", there is only one Gandalf. If he is already in the arena, he cant be summoned by anyone else, as he is not in that summoning plane. Now if Gandalf is destroyed, he goes back to his plane and waits for someone else summons him. Now did anyone get that, or did I just have too much stupid fall from my mouth. :blink: From a game stand point, think of it as a strategy. If I'm playing another beastmaster, I will get my ferret out first so he cant.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

BlueByLiquid

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 07:40:40 PM »
@Darth,

I think what you are saying makes some sense (especially the plains of wolfs example) but as I mentioned once it gets beat up so bad it is destroyed and sent back to the other plane why would it be totally ok the next minute when it is summoned again? I am guessing somone is going to say "when it is summoned it gets a new corporal form blah blah blah..." but it seems silly but then again you have to give up disbelief somewhere. I guess this is a point where it seems like it really messes with the balance of the game. Especially if you know someones deck ahead of time.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 07:56:53 PM »
Quote from: "BlueByLiquid" post=8551
@Darth,

I think what you are saying makes some sense (especially the plains of wolfs example) but as I mentioned once it gets beat up so bad it is destroyed and sent back to the other plane why would it be totally ok the next minute when it is summoned again? I am guessing somone is going to say "when it is summoned it gets a new corporal form blah blah blah..." but it seems silly but then again you have to give up disbelief somewhere. I guess this is a point where it seems like it really messes with the balance of the game. Especially if you know someones deck ahead of time.

I wouldnt say it messes with balance. This, if anything, is a game of adapting, so if you cant pull out your legendary,adapt. I dont think your opinion is wrong in anyway, you make a good point, but, I dont agree with it.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Arcanus

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 09:32:18 PM »
Thanks DarthDadaD20!

BlueByLiquid - I appreciate what you are saying sir.  Here is our "official" story explanation as to what happens during summoning, in case you are curious:

When a creature is summoned in Mage Wars it is a magical construct copy of a real creature.  It is a magical myrmidon, a basic copy of the species being emulated.
 
It is a real creature in every sense.  For example, when you summon a Timber Wolf, your Mage is creating a copy or clone of a real Timber Wolf.  It is alive, it is every bit as powerful and vulnerable as a real wolf, and it behaves and acts like a real wolf.  Its mind is adjusted to obey the commands of whomever summons it.

The creature is not “picked out of the nearby wilderness”. It is magically created. It has a temporary existence, and will dissipate back into magical energy shortly after an arena battle. If it dies during combat, its corpse will remain for awhile before dissipating later. Necromancers can make use of these clone corpses during the course of a battle.

Each Mage may summon the same creature with slightly different variations. My Timber Wolf clones will each look a little different from each other, and will look a little different from yours.  The basic species is being replicated, but not in the same exact detail.

A Mage can easily learn creature spells from another Mage, at the academy, without having ever seen that particular creature before.

Summoning Legendary creatures is a little different.  In this case you are creating a magical clone or copy of one particular creature. You are not creating a generic Timber Wolf, you are creating Redclaw, Alpha Male wolf.

In order to summon a specific creature, and make an exact copy of it, you must borrow from the essence of the real creature, and also have a bond or connection to that creature. Because of this, two Mages cannot cast the same specific creature spell at exactly the same time, and this is why only one Legendary creature can be summoned at a time.

Some other properties of Legendary creature spells:

The creature being cloned must actually be in existence. If Redclaw, Alpha Male was to die in real life, it can no longer provide the special essence and bond required to create an exact clone in summoning.

The clone has no connection to the actual creature, in that if it is harmed, or dies, or gains some powers in the arena, its real-life counterpart is unaffected. As a clone, it will dissipate shortly after the arena  battle, without having any effect on its true counterpart.

In order to learn Legendary creature spells, a Mage needs to have actually met and bonded with that creature at some point. A Priestess might do this with volunteer subjects, whereas a Warlock might capture a victim to create his spell.  Some creatures like Adramelech will not permit just any Mage to form the special bond required to be able to summon them as a clone.

Legendary spells are harder to learn because of these requirements, and are usually a much higher level.

Hope that helps.

BlueByLiquid

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2013, 10:28:10 PM »
Thanks fro the detailed descriptions Arcanus! This clears up legondary creatures but now I am confused about unique creatures based on your description. Any detail on "Unique" creatures as I am now struggling to see where that fits.

Arcanus

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 10:39:26 PM »
There are NO Unique creatures in Mage Wars.  (Did we just dodge a bullet?!   :)

They are either common creatures like the Timber Wolf (generic clones), or Legendary.

Unique is a term we use for other spells, such as the Death Link enchantment.  For example, in this case Unique is there because each Warlock may maintain only a single Death Link with one creature at a time.

BlueByLiquid

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 11:29:59 PM »
That is what I thought but previous comments seemed to indicate there are. :) But I see now that is not what was said. I should know as I have went over every card billions of times by now!

Thanks!

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Re: 2 Epic Spells in arena at same time?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 11:57:19 PM »
Quote from: "Arcanus" post=8557
Thanks DarthDadaD20!

BlueByLiquid - I appreciate what you are saying sir.  Here is our "official" story explanation as to what happens during summoning, in case you are curious:

When a creature is summoned in Mage Wars it is a magical construct copy of a real creature.  It is a magical myrmidon, a basic copy of the species being emulated.
 
It is a real creature in every sense.  For example, when you summon a Timber Wolf, your Mage is creating a copy or clone of a real Timber Wolf.  It is alive, it is every bit as powerful and vulnerable as a real wolf, and it behaves and acts like a real wolf.  Its mind is adjusted to obey the commands of whomever summons it.

The creature is not “picked out of the nearby wilderness”. It is magically created. It has a temporary existence, and will dissipate back into magical energy shortly after an arena battle. If it dies during combat, its corpse will remain for awhile before dissipating later. Necromancers can make use of these clone corpses during the course of a battle.

Each Mage may summon the same creature with slightly different variations. My Timber Wolf clones will each look a little different from each other, and will look a little different from yours.  The basic species is being replicated, but not in the same exact detail.

A Mage can easily learn creature spells from another Mage, at the academy, without having ever seen that particular creature before.

Summoning Legendary creatures is a little different.  In this case you are creating a magical clone or copy of one particular creature. You are not creating a generic Timber Wolf, you are creating Redclaw, Alpha Male wolf.

In order to summon a specific creature, and make an exact copy of it, you must borrow from the essence of the real creature, and also have a bond or connection to that creature. Because of this, two Mages cannot cast the same specific creature spell at exactly the same time, and this is why only one Legendary creature can be summoned at a time.

Some other properties of Legendary creature spells:

The creature being cloned must actually be in existence. If Redclaw, Alpha Male was to die in real life, it can no longer provide the special essence and bond required to create an exact clone in summoning.

The clone has no connection to the actual creature, in that if it is harmed, or dies, or gains some powers in the arena, its real-life counterpart is unaffected. As a clone, it will dissipate shortly after the arena  battle, without having any effect on its true counterpart.

In order to learn Legendary creature spells, a Mage needs to have actually met and bonded with that creature at some point. A Priestess might do this with volunteer subjects, whereas a Warlock might capture a victim to create his spell.  Some creatures like Adramelech will not permit just any Mage to form the special bond required to be able to summon them as a clone.

Legendary spells are harder to learn because of these requirements, and are usually a much higher level.

Hope that helps.


Thank you for that answer - I linked to it from my thread posted a while ago :P http://magewars.com/jsite/forum/world-and-lore/7006-summoning-question-lore-related#7006
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